Need help with specific questions please

Hello,
I have a few very specific questions that I would like to have answered. I am sure they have either been discussed before or have answers out there, I am just looking for specific direction at to where I can search them out or a link to them.

  1. Vessels: Which types of materials are allowed? Specifically, is a glass chalice allowed in the US?

  2. Fraction Rite: How many are allowed, and is the wine to be blessed in the Flagron and then fractionated after blessing?

  3. Purification of the vessels: Are the extraordinary ministers allowed to purify the vessels at all? In the back? any where? What is the exact process if it is delineated, where can I find it and are there any exceptions or alterations allowed BY ROME?

  4. Is a priest allowed to just dip his finger tips into a bowl of holy water to “wash” his hands during mass?

As you can see, they are specific questions, where would you start looking for the correct answers. I am not looking for conjecture or speculation, but specific church teachings.

Thank you and God bless,

(be nice, this is my first post!)

You will find most of what you need here - search on the keywords you want when the documents open.

GIRM 2003

Redemptionis Sacramentum - 2004

material of sacred vessels:

GIRM 328. Sacred vessels are to be made from precious metal. If they are made from metal that rusts or from a metal less precious than gold, then ordinarily they should be gilded on the inside.

  1. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, sacred vessels may also be made from other solid materials that, according to the common estimation in each region, are precious, for example, ebony or other hard woods, provided that such materials are suited to sacred use and do not easily break or deteriorate. This applies to all vessels which hold the hosts, such as the paten, the ciborium, the pyx, the monstrance, and other things of this kind.

the fraction: i don’t know what you mean by how many. if you mean ‘how many hosts can be broken?’ there is no specific number. it is one of those necessity things. the GIRM mentions that some of the host that is actually broken should be given to the people. as for consecrating the wine in a pitcher follow this link: usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/chalice.shtml
basically, the wine must be in the chalice before consecration. if you are from l.a., too bad, mahony has already said that he couldn’t care less. read this: the-tidings.com/2004/0910/liturgy.htm there is new info on the bishops site that relates to mahony’s situation that i haven’t read yet though.

purification of vessels:

USCCB, ‘Norms for Distribution of Communion Under Both Kinds’, 53. The chalice and other vessels may be taken to a side table, where they are cleansed and arranged in the usual way. Other sacred vessels that held the Precious Blood are purified in the same way as chalices. Provided the remaining consecrated bread has been consumed or reserved and the remaining Precious Blood has been consumed, “it is permissible to leave the vessels . . . suitably covered and at a side table on a corporal, to be cleansed immediately after Mass following the dismissal of the people.” (quoting the GIRM)

dispensation (same document, note the expiration date):

In a decree dated March 22, 2002 (Prot. 1382/01/L), the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments granted an indult whereby, for grave pastoral reasons, the diocesan Bishop may grant to priest celebrants the faculty to permit extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion to assist with the purification of sacred vessels after the distribution of Communion at Mass. This faculty dispenses from the norm of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, editio typica tertia for a period of three years.

hand washing: note that 76 says “rite”, that means IMO that the details matter.

GIRM 76. The priest then washes his hands at the side of the altar, a rite that is an expression of his desire for interior purification.
145. After the prayer In spiritu humilitatis (Lord God, we ask you to receive us) or after the incensation, the priest washes his hands standing at the side of the altar and, as the minister pours the water, says quietly, Lava me, Domine (Lord, wash away my iniquity).

[quote=GB Faithful](be nice, this is my first post!)
[/quote]

Welcome to the forums!:tiphat:

there is new info on the bishops site that relates to mahony’s situation that i haven’t read yet though.

as it turns out, the new info re-enforces what we already know. mahony has not right to ignore RS, especially n. 106, where he specifically says he will not stop using pitchers.

from the bishop’s website:

In recent days, the Secretariat for the Liturgy has received several inquiries concerning the authority of the Diocesan Bishop in relationship to the instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum. Specifically, these inquiries have dealt with the responsibilities of the Bishop to apply universal and particular provisions of liturgical law and the extent to which he might modify them. The following questions are provided to summarize the responses to these questions provided by Redemptionis Sacramentum.

at the end of the page:

With the exception of these and other modifications of the law explicitly assigned to the Diocesan Bishop, no additional changes to liturgical law may be introduced to Diocesan liturgical practice without the specific prior [sic] of the Holy See.

i added this because it mentioned it the earlier post.

I want to thank all of you for taking the time to thoughtfully answer my questions. I appreciate the links and such. You have enabled me to find all my answers. Thank you all very much.

God Bless all of you!!!

May you all have a blessed Lent and Happy Easter.

[quote=GB Faithful]Hello,
I have a few very specific questions that I would like to have answered. I am sure they have either been discussed before or have answers out there, I am just looking for specific direction at to where I can search them out or a link to them.

  1. Vessels: Which types of materials are allowed? Specifically, is a glass chalice allowed in the US?

  2. Fraction Rite: How many are allowed, and is the wine to be blessed in the Flagron and then fractionated after blessing?

  3. Purification of the vessels: Are the extraordinary ministers allowed to purify the vessels at all? In the back? any where? What is the exact process if it is delineated, where can I find it and are there any exceptions or alterations allowed BY ROME?

  4. Is a priest allowed to just dip his finger tips into a bowl of holy water to “wash” his hands during mass?

As you can see, they are specific questions, where would you start looking for the correct answers. I am not looking for conjecture or speculation, but specific church teachings.

Thank you and God bless,

(be nice, this is my first post!)
[/quote]

As to question 1, there is language that would indicate that an expensive glass vessel might be permissible (e.g. Waterford crystal). The last I heard, there was a question (dubium) to Rome, and I have not heard that it has been answered. People who read the GIRM and Redemptionis Sacramentum on their own are almost always lacking in training in Canon law, or any law, and tend to read without noticing phrasing that may indicate something other than an absolute. Some of the bishops are treating it as an absolute. Some bishops who are well trained in Canon law, and also orthodox, have questioned Rome over what appears to be some ambiguity, and have had their orthodoxy questioned by some lay people (who appear to not have the word "nuance’ in their dictionary).

As to question 4, I have attended a large number of Masses pre Vatican 2, and since then, and I can probably count on one hand, and not use all my fingers, the number of priests who actually do what most people would call “washing”. Almost to a priest, they do what would be better described as a short rinse of thier fingertips. Rinsing seems to satisfy the directive.

If you need to know, that is if you have some responsibility for how the Mass is conducted in your parish, you are no doubt familiar with the GIRM, the general instruction on the roman missal. If you are not, assume that the pastor, whose responsibility the proper conduct of the Mass remains, is following the prescribed rites of the Church. It is not the duty of the Catholic in the pew to second guess evey word and action performed in the sanctuary. You will benefit much more from the Mass if you concentrate on your own full and active participation in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

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