[quote=oat soda]true, but is still silly and awkard and it has no historical place in ANY christian liturgy.
Those of us who are silly and awkward usually leave the dancing to those who make it look quite pretty and graceful. I don’t know what you’ve seen but what I’ve seen is a very simple leg work. I think it’s something like what they call a grapevine.(?) No arm movements.
It is after the Mass has concluded.
what about sacrosantum concillium’s call for the organ and gregorian chant given pride of place?again another innovation which is foriegn to the liturgy. this is an example of how the community is stressed and not what the liturgy is really about.
what about what Sacrosanctum Concilium says here:
[quote=SC] 37. Even in the liturgy, the Church has no wish to impose a rigid uniformity in matters which do not implicate the faith or the good of the whole community; rather does she respect and foster the genius and talents of the various races and peoples. Anything in these peoples’ way of life which is not indissolubly bound up with superstition and error she studies with sympathy and, if possible, preserves intact. Sometimes in fact she admits such things into the liturgy itself, so long as they harmonize with its true and authentic spirit.
[quote=SC]116…But other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations, so long as they accord with the spirit of the liturgical action, as laid down in Art. 30.
[quote=SC]121…Let them produce compositions which have the qualities proper to genuine sacred music, not confining themselves to works which can be sung only by large choirs, but providing also for the needs of small choirs and for the active participation of the entire assembly of the faithful.
The texts intended to be sung must always be in conformity with Catholic doctrine; indeed they should be drawn chiefly from holy scripture and from liturgical sources.
[quote=oatsoda]1) its celebration would normally consititute liturgical abuse -for example, no kneeling, only receiving in the hand sitting down, guitar playing during eucharistic prayer, altering the eucharistic prayer with “father, father” called out twice, dancing around altar, and echos. if it is ok for the way to do it, why not for everyone?
I’ve never heard anyone call out “Father, Father.”
Kneeling: The GIRM allows for situations where kneeling is not possible due to lack of space and/or physical limitations.
The guitar playing during the Eucharistic prayer: It’s a soft, slow,strum that is made one string at a time. (I don’t know what the musical term is). When the Bishop celebrates the Mass-- he sings all the prayers. The guitar background is like a far-away background chord-help.
The auxillary Bishop doesn’t sing the prayers. Perhaps in those instances the guitar will end up being dropped.
What does this say about the transcendence of the liturgy?
I have never seen any diminishment of the liturgy’s transcendence.
- its dubious historical origins. it has no counterpart in the historical development of any apostolic liturgy of both the east and west. it reflects the mindset of the 60s which was supercritical of tradition. a good example is how priests are normally called “presiders”.
??? It’s historical origins are the Mass. It’s historical foundation is Scripture. Spain, which is where the Way originated-- to my knowledge-- did not have a “60’s”.
I’ve heard “priests” as often as I’ve heard “presiders”. Should I start counting? It just seems like you’re jumping at shadows a bit.
Sorry, oatsoda, but Rome seems to think that we can have it both ways. The body of Christ is comprised of many different parts. Some prefer the TLM, some prefer the Mass, some the Charismatic Movement. There are different groups that form in order to support and encourage a life in Christ.
On the contrary, documents like Sacrosanctum Concilium keep their meaning.
[quote=SC] 37. Even in the liturgy, the Church has no wish to impose a rigid uniformity in matters which do not implicate the faith or the good of the whole community; rather does she respect and foster the genius and talents of the various races and peoples. ,Sometimes in fact she admits such things into the liturgy itself, so long as they harmonize with its true and authentic spirit.
The SC also states
[quote=Sacrosanctum Concilium]22. 1. Regulation of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church, that is, on the Apostolic See and, as laws may determine, on the bishop.
Not you or me.