Neocatechumenate Mass.


#1

Hello there.

I attended my first Neo-Cat Mass this evening after being invited by a friend.

I was kind of shocked by what happenned there. Is there anything against the following things happenning in a Neo-Cat Mass:

  • After entering the Priest sat at the back for a moment whilst a member of the laity introduced the Mass before he came in and said “Name of the Father…”

  • The Homily was shared between the Priest and the Laity. The laity doing the first part and making their own contributions.

  • Missing out most of the Eucharistic Prayer. Going from “Holy, Holy” to “This is my body…”

  • No kneeling during the consecration (or at anytime)

  • Everyone recieving the Eucharist and then everyone (including the Priest) consumes it at the same time

  • Dancing around the Altar at the end

I’m from the Uk and I know at a “normal” Mass, this is wrong, but seeing as this is a slightly different Mass, are these things ok if (I don’t know if they did) get permission from the Bishop?

Needless to say, I’m not going again!!

JD


#2

Some articles about the Vatican’s directions to the Neocatechumenal Way are:
chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=44140&eng=y with the letter sent to them.
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0507371.htm an article by Cindy Wooden on the letter.
zenit.org/article-15325?l=english Address of Benedict XVI of 12 January 2006
zenit.org/article-15304?l=english Interview with Cardinal Arinze.


#3

John…I don’t blame you for not wanting to go back! They are like a cult. Here is an interesting link about them.

charismatic-heresy.blogspot.com/2007/02/neocatechumenal-way.html


#4

We are eagerly awaiting the Holy Father’s decision on the Statutes - which ironically does not state all the abuses that go on at the Eucharist. I have found out that the only change re Communion is that they will now stand to receive! Nothing about the bread which is baked and crumbs can be dropped especially by children, also no one is allowed to receive on the tongue. I have been told by a Cannon lawyer that the Consecration is not complete until the Priest consumes the Eucharist. This is very frightening. As the Priest has Communion with the rest of the people and then has the Blood of Christ after this, it makes it very difficult or impossible for anyone to receive on the tongue. It would mean you would be consuming the Eucharist before the Priest. Everyone stands for the Consecration as kneeling is for ‘slaves’. Also it is considered a Celebration and the Sacrifice of the Mass is never mentioned. There is so much wrong with it and the followers are blind to all this. Anything that Kiko says is gospel and no one ever contradicts. I should know as I was in it for 30 years! I began to rebel about 10 years ago and many attempts were made to bring me in line but with no success. Our Blessed Mother had other plans for me and now I enjoy daily Mass and Exposition and follow the Marian way of life. It also means that I am free on Saturday nights to be with my husband - something we never enjoyed when I was in the ‘way’. The only problem, as I mentioned before, is that some of my family members are heavily involved and this creates a lot of problems. I am praying that Kiko and Carmen will be brought in line and that true and healthy fruit can issue from this way. They are good at Evangelising and Vocations but into Christianity but not into the true Catholic Church.God bless


#5

By the way, I am not a ‘junior’ member. Don’t know how that happened!!


#6

I’ve been meaning to find one nearby and attend, just so I can be sure it’s really as bad as I’ve been hearing and reading. I fear for their souls.

I believe it is ok for there to be an introduction before Mass begins to explain what the readings are about and any special intentions.

Wrong. The homily is the function of a deacon, priest, or bishop.

Wrong. Who’s allowed to make changes to the liturgy? Oh, right, no one.

That might be up to the Bishop.

Wrong. The priest must consume his Eucharist (Body and Blood) before the rest of the faithful receive theirs.

Technically, if it’s after Mass, it’s “ok” to dance around the altar, but then again, that involves frivolously entering the Sanctuary.

I’d provide references for these answers, but I have to be getting to morning Mass. I’ll come back later.


#7

nightengale I believbe that refers to your number of post or time being a member not your age


#8

Thanks - as you can see I am new to this!!


#9

I also applaud the decision to not go back!

I’m in the process of studying the NCW from the outside. I did actually go to the series of talks and their recruitment retreat but they were not able to snare me. I was not taken in by their double talk and dubious theology and pressure.

They tend to gravitate toward parishes with weak pastors. They come to the pastor and tell him that they are “sent by the bishop and/or the Pope,” which is a twist of the truth. In reality, they are allowed to exist in a diocese, and that’s not the same as “being sent from the bishop.” They will tell the pastor that they can bring life to a parish via their “catechesis,” and typically the pastor will agree without actually getting specifics. But, as a former pastor of a very poor church here locally will attest, years later all they’ve succeeded in doing is splitting the parish into lots of little NCW communities and trying to physically rearrange the layout of the worship space to suit their needs.

When one uses the word “catechesis,” it’s usually implied that they mean the Catechism of the Catholic Church. What pastor wouldn’t want that? But in reality, our CCC is NEVER broken open or referred to. Their catechesis is really just indoctrination into Kiko and Carmen’s weird, pseudo-Lutheran view.

Here’s a classic example: They say that the Mass is not a sacrifice. WHAAAATTT???

Not enough is known about them, and supposedly Rome is in the process of reviewing their catechetical materials. They are in a 5-year “ad experimentum” period that was supposed to have ended in June 2007, but even before that time was up, Cardinal Arinze sent Kiko and Carmen a letter that, while allowing them to have the sign of peace at the offertory, instructed them to not make any changes to the Eucharistic prayer and instruct their followers to begin celebrating receiving the Eucharist in the way the rest of our world does. I was very happy to read that.

Hang in there!


#10

Here’s a video that shows the dance at the end of their celebration. You can see that the ambo is directly in front of the presider’s chair, and that large square table in the middle is the altar.

youtube.com/watch?v=5JwEmqcOObU


#11

You are a junior member until you have achieved a post count high enough to be considered a senior member by the forum software. Definitely nothing personal. BTW welcome to the forums and great to have you!


#12

This seems so out of line with the Catholic Church…how is it possible that they are doing these ‘Masses’ with the Vaticans ok?


#13

So pleased to get all your comments. I am still hanging on ‘out there’ and am happier than I have ever been in years. Still see them occasionally but not in formal liturgies or Eucharists. After all, we were together for a very long time. What is interesting is that there is total silence about the letter from Cardinal Arinze - and what Kiko plans to do about it. No great changes have taken place around here. They are still sitting for Communion and haven’t been told to attend Mass on any Sunday in the Parish. I was told that they expected the Statutes to be approved before the end of summer - but there is total silence there too. A few of us have written to the Vatican and have had very ‘encouraging’ replies. They are, however, going to get a few brownie points for the 2000 boys who stood up to be priests, and 1000 girls to be nuns, at the Loreto pilgrimage when they saw Kiko. However, as we know, there can be lots of delicious-looking fruit in the orchard, but upon close inspection, one can see that some are rotten. Please remember them in your prayers. They are basically good people but very naive when it comes to Kiko’s ‘gospel’. Only prayer can sort this out now. So good to know I have people thinking along the same lines and praying. God bless. You are all in my prayers too.


#14

If this group is so heretical, then why does the Vatican endorse it? It’s well on its way to being fully recognized as a movement within the Church.

From what I’ve read about it, though, there’s nothing about this group that is even remotely Catholic.


#15

That’s just it. They haven’t endorsed it per se. They are under an “ad experimentum” period, and Cardinal Arinze has already seen fit to correct some of their liturgical practices. They have been given a period of two years to ensure that their liturgies are more in line with the rest of the Roman rite Church.

What is true is that their Statutes were approved under the “ad experimentum” period, and that JPII and B16 are approving of their zeal for evangelization among our own.

Those are the brass tacks of the situation.

The Vatican is scrutinizing the doctrine that their “catechists” teach. I am compiling a list of their doctrinal errors (heresies?), and I will be posting it soon. If not on this thread, then somewhere else on this forum.


#16

Could someone explain to me exactly what it is? (I’m a non-Catholic who is deeply interested in the Catholic faith).

Thanks!


#17

I saw that number in an article in the Catholic Register this week! I was happily surprised, but after reading this thread, I don’t know…


#18

The Neocatechumal Way was approved for a period of five years ad experimentum. This period expired June of this year 2007. So in essence since June 2007 – this movement is operating —only under the approval of Kiko Arguello (the founder) without the continuing approval from Rome.


#19

Quite honestly, if the Church can get these folks to button up the theological errors, celebrate the Eucharist in a way approved by Rome, and live in harmony with other spiritual movements, then the fruits borne by their vocations will be sound and not wormy.

Otherwise, if they can’t be humble enough to submit to the Magisterium, then it’s probably not a true charism and needs to be separated from the Body like other heretics.


#20

I agree—for it will do the Church no good and is actually very harmfull and damaging–to have all those men and women volunteering to be priests and nuns—when they are perpetuating theological errors and contributing to liturgical errors.


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