Sorry for my English :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ve just found a very, very strange website:

I think it’s some kind of “neo-Jansenist” group. They say they’re Roman Catholic.

They say that the Jansenists represent Augustine’s true theory about Grace, Free Will and Sin, and that the anti-Jansenist popes were heretics. They say that the Patristic Church was Jansenist and it became corrupted because the Scholastics supposedly adopted Semi-Pelagianism (a heresy). They say that the “Limbo of the Enfants” is a “Pelagian fable” and the unbaptized infants suffer the fire of Hell.


Some quotes:

"Unbaptized Infants Suffer Fire and Limbo is a Heretical Pelagian Fable

In past centuries, the Roman Catholic Church approved, with the highest authority, the teaching of St. Augustine on the fate in hell fire of infants who die without baptism. Augustine drew upon the Bible to maintain against the British monk Pelagius and his camp in the fifth century the following points of doctrine.

o That infants who die without baptism have the penalty of fire in hell with the devil;

o That there is no place anywhere, in heaven, hell or anywhere else, where unbaptized infants have rest and happiness.

Since that time it has been a part of the Pelagian heresy to deny that doctrine.

The teaching of St. Augustine on the fate of unbaptized infants was codified at the XVI Council of Carthage in 418, the Council of Lyons II in 1274, and at the Council of Florence in 1438-1445. The teaching of these councils is considered to be infallible by Catholic theologians because of the degree of authority given to them by popes. However, medieval Scholastics departed from the doctrine and revived the Limbo heresy of the Pelagians; Rome would now admit unbaptized infants to heaven in the universal salvation of all people."

"The XVI Council of Carthage (418) condemned the Pelagian fable that there is some place anywhere where infants who died without baptism live in happiness (Limbo).

The Council taught the Catholic doctrine that infants go into the fire to be eternally punished with the devil, being on the left hand at the judgement.

The teaching of Carthage was infallibly approved as a rule of the Faith by Pope Zosimus and Pope Innocent I and by the ecumenical councils, which were approved by other popes."

"The heresy of Pius V

Pius V condemned in Ex Omnibus Afflictionibus (1567) various Augustinian propositions advanced by Michael Bajus that had been infallibly approved by popes of the patristic Church.

Pope Boniface II approved the Second Council of Orange (529) as a rule of faith for the Church and its canons are grudgingly admitted by Catholic theologians to be infallible definitions of the doctrine of the faith, though few would honestly own its teaching.

Pope Pius XI: “It is a further tribute to the glory of the Bishop of Hippo [Augustine], that more than once the Fathers in lawful Councils assembled, made use of his very words in defining Catholic truth. In illustration it is enough to cite the Second Council of Orange”. (Ad Salutem)

Approved in early Church

“No one has anything of his own but lying and sin. But if man has any truth and justice it is from that fountain. …] Without God man can do no good.” (Orange II 22, 20)

“Worldly desire creates the fortitude of the Gentiles, but the charity of God, which is diffused in our hearts, not by free will, which is from us, but by the Holy Spirit, which is given to us produces the fortitude of the Christians.” (Orange II, 17)

Condemned in Bajus

“Free will, without the help of God’s grace, has power only for sin.” (Ex Omnibus 27)
“All love of a rational creature is either vicious cupidity by which the world is loved, which is prohibited by John; or that praiseworthy charity by which ‘when poured forth by the Spirit’, God is loved.” (Ex Omnibus 38)"

How to answer them?


“Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou be made like him.” (Proverbs 26: 4) :smiley:

On a more serious note, there’s always:

  • Matthew 16: 18 (the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church)
  • The first letter of St. Clement to the Corinthians (against divisions and schisms)
  • The fact that the Church has never officially endorsed those aspects of Augustine’s teaching which could be twisted to a Jansenist position
  • The fact that, if Jansenism is true, it is not taught anywhere in the New Testament, or among the Early Church Fathers prior to Augustine (and again, Augustine was not a Jansenist; his words were twisted by later schismatics)
  • St. Augustine’s own words on obedience to the authority of the Church
  • valid Church positions on grace, free will and predestination (Thomism, Molinism)

There’s much more, but such theology is beneath contempt. Anyone who calls St. Therese of Lisieux “The Big Stinkweed” and lists false “heresies” of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI is endangering their immortal soul. :frowning:

A wise post.
There are too many other concerns that good catholics should have with the world than to worry about this group. We should pray for them.

I’m not surprised. A lot of these sedevacantist groups are poisoned by heresy like this.

How to respond? Just tell them they’re wrong. There’s not much more you can do. If they don’t believe, they don’t believe. You can lead a horse to water…

This is very interesting; thanks for the links,
Benedicat Deus,

I read all I needed to in about 15 seconds to recognize that there is no point in trying to argue against a group like this. Not to mention it was quite obvious just how wrong they were on so many different ideas. I wouldn’t waste any more time with something like this.

Boulder257 is correct. It doesn’t take long to see that the site is viscously anti-semetic.

The site says that the holocaust is a hoax invented by US and Canadian Judeo-Masonic puppet governments. The site defends Nazi supporters such as Ernst Zündel and others.

It is the worst of the worst, a Nazi supporting hatred site posing under the name of Christ.



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