New Heaven and Earth


#1

I hate to ask this question because I guess it is something that I should know, but I really have not heard it stated.

At Christ's Second Coming, when the new heaven and earth are referenced, will the new earth be actually a physical earth without all the corruption? Will people continue to live on it. Will there be a need for marriage.
What is it really supposed to be like then in relation to our lives now?

I hope I am expressing myself adequately as to what I am trying to ask.


#2

It appears that the earth will be renewed and will be a place where the glorified saints will be able to dwell. As some of the Church Fathers explain it, as the bodies of the saints will be glorified, so will the elements of the earth be in a state of glory.

Here is a footnote from the Aquinas Study Bible

21:1 new heavens and earth: He does not mean that the heaven and the earth and the sea will be destroyed and have disappeared and that others will be created in their place, but that the present ones will have thrown off their decay and become new, as though they have taken off an old garment and the accompanying dirt. (Oecumenius) heaven and earth fled away: This is that which the Lord said, 'Heaven and earth shall pass away; but my words shall not pass away, ' Matt. 24:35." (Haimo of Auxerre) *sea is now no more: **I would not lightly say whether it is dried up with that excessive heat, or is itself also turned into some better thing. *(St. Augustine City of God 20.16) For what use is there of a sea when people no longer need to sail it or to acquire by means of it the goods grown in regions lying far away? Moreover the 'sea' is symbolic of the turbulence and unsettledness of life, and so there will then be no need of it when there remains no trouble or fear among the saints. (St. Andrew of Caesarea) Luis of Alcasar maintains that the sea here mentioned is mystical, and so says St. Albert the Great. Primasius is uncertain upon the subject; so are Rabanus Maurus and St. Ambrosius Autpertus; while Berengaud admits both an allegorical and literal interpretation.


#3

The end of time is Eucharistic. All of creation will be transformed, just as the bread and wine are transformed. All will enter into glory, just as Christ did.

Christ states clearly that there will be no marriage.

**For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. *(Matthew 22:30)*

-Tim-


#4

So will it be how we're living right now, only much better? Or will only our spirit live in the new earth?


#5

We will rise from the dead and receive our glorified bodies. Jesus rose from the dead and his body was real. We will follow Jesus and our bodies will be real, physical bodies. We will not be just spirits. We profess this belief in the creed every Sunday at Mass.


I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come*. Amen.

We will rise from the dead. It is right there in the creed. It is what we believe.

-Tim0


#6

[quote="Eduardo06sp, post:4, topic:341299"]
So will it be how we're living right now, only much better? Or will only our spirit live in the new earth?

[/quote]

No remember the Apostles Creed, we believe in the resurrection of the body.
The elect will have a new body but made perfect with none of the frailties, sickness and propensity to sin we have now. The Church describes this as "Glorified Bodies".
Just as the one Jesus and Mary already have.

--


#7

This may sound childish of me, but I do hope there are seas to sail upon.

I love the feeling of a boat under sail and my hand on the tiller, the sails full...the best!

:thumbsup:


#8

The Eucharist is not transformed, it is transubstantiated while the form remains the same. Did you mean that all of creation will be transubstantiated?


#9

[quote="Michael57, post:7, topic:341299"]
This may sound childish of me, but I do hope there are seas to sail upon.

I love the feeling of a boat under sail and my hand on the tiller, the sails full...the best!

:thumbsup:

[/quote]

i would love to hope also that at least there will be boats, ships, and/or similar implements to

at least look at or know are there.

God bless


#10

[quote="COPLAND_3, post:2, topic:341299"]
It appears that the earth will be renewed and will be a place where the glorified saints will be able to dwell. As some of the Church Fathers explain it, as the bodies of the saints will be glorified, so will the elements of the earth be in a state of glory.

Here is a footnote from the Aquinas Study Bible

21:1 new heavens and earth: He does not mean that the heaven and the earth and the sea will be destroyed and have disappeared and that others will be created in their place, but that the present ones will have thrown off their decay and become new, as though they have taken off an old garment and the accompanying dirt. (Oecumenius) heaven and earth fled away: This is that which the Lord said, 'Heaven and earth shall pass away; but my words shall not pass away, ' Matt. 24:35." (Haimo of Auxerre) *sea is now no more: **I would not lightly say whether it is dried up with that excessive heat, or is itself also turned into some better thing. *(St. Augustine City of God 20.16) For what use is there of a sea when people no longer need to sail it or to acquire by means of it the goods grown in regions lying far away? Moreover the 'sea' is symbolic of the turbulence and unsettledness of life, and so there will then be no need of it when there remains no trouble or fear among the saints. (St. Andrew of Caesarea) Luis of Alcasar maintains that the sea here mentioned is mystical, and so says St. Albert the Great. Primasius is uncertain upon the subject; so are Rabanus Maurus and St. Ambrosius Autpertus; while Berengaud admits both an allegorical and literal interpretation.

[/quote]

so in short God in His perfect love and beauty and with more than a little of His truth will

only truly know what He will form/reveal/etc... and hopefully will be a surprise for more that

a few?

Is this speculation correct?

God bless


#11

[quote="Elizium23, post:8, topic:341299"]
The Eucharist is not transformed, it is transubstantiated while the form remains the same. Did you mean that all of creation will be transubstantiated?

[/quote]

I assume that your post was meant for me?

I meant that somehow, creation will be changed. What label one wants to put on it is up to them.

**For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
*
(Isaiah 65:17)

But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
(2 Peter 3:13)

*Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. *
(Revelation 21:1)

And he who sat upon the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new."
(Revelation 21:5)*

God will make all things new. Exactly how that happens is not as important to me as the fact that it will happen.

-Tim-


#12

[quote="aragonjohn1, post:10, topic:341299"]
so in short God in His perfect love and beauty and with more than a little of His truth will

only truly know what He will form/reveal/etc... and hopefully will be a surprise for more that

a few?

Is this speculation correct?

God bless

[/quote]

Scripture usually gives us only a blurry vision of the spiritual reality of God's plans!


#13

[quote="COPLAND_3, post:12, topic:341299"]
Scripture usually gives us only a blurry vision of the spiritual reality of God's plans!

[/quote]

Thank God :thumbsup:

God bless


#14

[quote="TimothyH, post:11, topic:341299"]
I assume that your post was meant for me?

I meant that somehow, creation will be changed. What label one wants to put on it is up to them.

For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.

(Isaiah 65:17)

But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
(2 Peter 3:13)

*Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. *
(Revelation 21:1)

And he who sat upon the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new."
(Revelation 21:5)

God will make all things new. Exactly how that happens is not as important to me as the fact that it will happen.

-Tim-

[/quote]

What information is in the Catechism or Tradition about this?


#15

[quote="Elizium23, post:14, topic:341299"]
What information is in the Catechism or Tradition about this?

[/quote]

You can look at CCC 1042 and on.

**1047* The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, "so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just," sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ.*

The footnote for CCC 1047 cites St. Irenaeus. I can discuss it from the point of view of scripture pretty well if you have the patience to read. I hope you do.

There is a basis for belief in a transformed or "glorified" creation in Old Testament Judaism as the quotes from scripture which I have already given indicate. While there was no central Jewish authority on doctrine, a significant portion of ancient Jews believed that the Messiah would be a new Moses who would institute a new exodus. The idea of a new exodus is explicit in scripture with Moses and Elijah conversing with Jesus about this very topic.

**And behold, two men were conversing with him, Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of his exodus that he was going to accomplish in Jerusalem. (Luke 9:30-31)

Many people miss that little part in red, exclusive to Luke's transfiguration narrative, that Moses and Elijah were discussing the new exodus.

There were to be many aspects to this new exodus including a return of the manna from heaven. Catholics instinctively understand this as being fulfilled by Jesus who feeds the multitudes with just a few morsels and then gives himself as the True Bread from Heaven. Jesus is the manna.

Another aspect of the new exodus was the belief that God would actually transform (transubstantiate or glorify if you prefer) the land, changing the old creation into a entirely new creation or bringing creation back to its original state before sin entered. The Biblical citations which I gave from Isaiah, 2 Peter and Revelation as well as the Transfiguration narrative from Luke indicate that this belief was common among both the Prophets, the Apostles and the authors of the Gospels. St. John places the words, "I make all things new" on the lips of God. St. Peter speaks of elements being dissolved by fire and the genesis of a new creation.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a mighty roar and the elements will be dissolved by fire, and the earth and everything done on it will be found out. Since everything is to be dissolved in this way, what sort of persons ought (you) to be, conducting yourselves in holiness and devotion, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved in flames and the elements melted by fire. But according to his promise we await new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. (2 Peter 3:10-13)

The belief in the resurrection of the dead and a transformation of creation was one of the things which separated the Pharisees from the Sadducees. The former believed while the latter did not.

This isn't my teaching although I ascribe to it. Scott Hahn makes a good case that the end of time will be "Eucharistic" in his book The Lamb's Supper. It is worth a read, as is Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist by Brant Pitre.

I hope the citation from the Catechism gets you started Elizium. There is a whole section in the CCC on the end of time and it is super interesting with tons of footnotes and references to ECF's.

-Tim-


#16

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