NEW INFORMATION: Tomah VA: Veterans could have been infected with Hepatitis, HIV


#1

weau.com/content/news/Tomah-VA-Veterans-could-have-been-infected-with-Hepatitis-HIV-403632336.html

Always remember, “Government is simply the name for the things we do together”, like infecting veterans with HIV…


#2

I’m personally not a believer in the HIV causes AIDS theory. I believe there are better potential causes for why a persons immune system can become compromised.

With that said, if a doctor says you have HIV then you need to take precautions and protect yourself. That is the law.

There is, and has been for years a lively debate on whether HIV causes AIDS. As one example I thought this a nice article by Kary Mullis on his attempts to discover research linking HIV to causing AIDS. He found no research papers linking the two.

Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize winner in Chemistry

duesberg.com/viewpoints/kintro.html


#3

The VA is so dysfunctional. If the photo in the story is to be believed then they can’t even hang their seal on the wall straight


#4

Not the first time something like this had happened. Remember the Tuskegee Airmen incidents.


#5

I’m pretty sure you’re thinking of something other than the Tuskegee Airmen.


#6

Both show the plight of Veterans & how they are treated/mistreated by a system they should be trusting.


#7

This is probably what is being referenced:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment


#8

When people demand government run healthcare, remind them that the VA is what it looks like.


#9

Please don’t spread this dangerous pseudo-science. Instead read these:

Wikipedia
Science Daily
CDC
NIH
WebMD
Mayo Clinic
Journal of Aids and HIV Research

People really need to learn how to evaluate the reliability of sources. Just because someone got a Nobel Prize in Chemistry does not mean that everything that person says afterwards is to be taken as reliable. Even Nobel Prize winners can go off the deep end.


#10

:thumbsup:


#11

One SLIGHT correction, the VA is what govt run healthcare looks like for a politically-respected group like veterans, who carry a lot of sentimental and political weight.

Govt healthcare will be even worse for regular scrubs.


#12

Even the noble prize winner for discovering HIV, professor Luc Montagnier has questioned the theory that HIV causes AIDS. You can see him here in this interview mentioning that he believes HIV is easy to catch and easy to loose, similar to a cold virus.

youtube.com/watch?v=VLXFv1D2Dds

It is not difficult to see why Professor Montangnier would say that. Often used to give a diagnosis for AIDS, the Bangui definition for AIDS is used. This is where no blood testing is done. More on the Bangui definition can be read here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_World_Health_Organization_AIDS_surveillance_case_definition

Overall, historically i suspect AIDS and it’s many diseases (in the US I believe it is 31 disease that are AIDS related. Other countries have different diseases related to AIDS) is similar to the nutritional disease Pellagra. For decades most researchers, doctors, politicians and people wanted to believe pellagra was caused by a virus. No amount of proof was possible to change ones mind. It was easier to believe and say that a mysterious virus was responsible for the disease, instead of poverty and malnutrition. (In the case of AIDS some suspect recreational drug use in the west harms people immune system. In Africa and parts of Asia poverty and malnutrition are believed to harm peoples immune system.)

Some on the politics of pellagra ~

blogs.creighton.edu/heaney/2013/11/18/pellagra-and-the-four-ds/

excerpts:

2014 marks the 100th anniversary of the war on pellagra, a war that lasted nearly 25 of those years before victory could finally be declared. You have not heard of the war on pellagra? The celebration is not on your calendar? You’re not alone.

Why did it take so long? Was the science so intractable, like the current “war” on cancer? No. It was politics and pigheadedness that were the obstacles.

What is Pellagra?

It was in 1914 that Dr. Jozef Goldberger, a Hungarian-born, U.S. educated epidemiologist, was assigned by the U.S. Public Health Service to investigate an epidemic of a disease disabling and killing hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens, especially in the southern part of the United States. The disease was pellagra, a word with Italian roots, meaning sour or rough skin, a reference to the dermatitis that is one of the hallmarks of the disease. …

…Goldberger, convinced that diet was the culprit, conducted an experiment in a Mississippi prison farm, exposing prisoners to a diet like those eaten by people manifesting pellagra and – no surprise – they developed pellagra within a few months. Medical experts claimed that it wasn’t real pellagra and found other imaginary flaws in the project. Goldberger then went on to inoculate himself, his wife, and his assistant with blood and throat scrapings from pellagra patients – a test of the infectious hypothesis. But to no effect. He transferred skin scrapings and even fecal samples to healthy volunteers. Sometimes the recipients got temporarily sick, but they did not get pellagra. It simply was impossible to “catch” the disease. Still no one paid attention.

In fact southern politicians actively resisted the conclusion that diet was the culprit, fearing that the high prevalence in their states would cast their region in an unfavorable light if the disease was caused by poverty. They could accept infection (over which they had little control), but not poor diet due to socio-economic factors – for which they could be considered responsible. This was not the first time politics tried to discredit science – and certainly not the last.

The story does not have an altogether happy ending. Fifteen years after starting on the project, Jozef Goldberger died of kidney cancer. He had not yet been vindicated and there was still, despite all his work, a prevalent view that pellagra was an infectious disease. Happily, the work was carried on by nutritional biochemists at the University of Wisconsin who were able conclusively to demonstrate that insufficient intake of niacin or nicotinamide was the entire explanation for the pellagra problem. By that time the truth could no longer be evaded. Steps began to be taken, first at a state level, and then finally by the U.S. government itself, to ensure that certain cereal products (mainly white bread flour) would be enriched with B vitamins, and specifically in this case, niacin. Doing so did not solve the underlying poverty, but it did help the inadequate diets of those trapped in poverty. In the United States, at least, pellagra is a disease of the past – fortunately – and it is doubtful today that most health professionals would recognize it if a case happened to come to their attention…


#13

Roselle, why would only intravenous drug users be mores susceptible to HIV if drug use in general causes AIDS?

Why have mothers passed it on to their babies if it isn’t a virus but malnutrition ? How about blood transfusion recipients?

HIV is the virus that causes AIDS.


#14

You clearly did not watch the video carefully. Luc Montagnier does not question that HIV is the cause of AIDS. In fact he confirms it.

Overall, historically i suspect AIDS and it’s many diseases…

Before you go any further saying what “you suspect”, please tell me your medical qualification so that I may know why I should believe you over the seven authoritative sources I cited.

Some on the politics of pellagra ~
[snipped]

The history of some other disease has no relevance to the question at hand.


#15

The dispute is what is causing harm to a persons immune system causing one to become susceptible to other diseases. AIDS is many diseases. it is not one disease. Some say, as with the interview with Professor Luc Montagnier, HIV is a harmless passenger virus.

As an example, if you test positive for TB you will also then be tested for HIV. If the HIV test comes back negative then you are diagnosed with only TB. If you test positive for TB and positive for HIV then you are diagnosed as having AIDS.

In the medical world the person diagnosed with only TB will be said to be susceptible for some other potential reason. Maybe the person is malnourished causing the immune system to become weak. Maybe the person is a drug addict. If the person tests positive for HIV then it is said the virus harmed the persons immune system causing him/her to develop AIDS, or a weakened immune system.

With recreational drugs, it is known that some drugs can over time harm the immune system. A meth addict for example I’ve read can expect to live around 7 years. The drug will cause a meth addicts immune system to become weaker, making the person more susceptible to diseases.

If a meth addict tests positive for HIV then it is said that HIV is causing his immune system to fail, not the recreational drug.


#16

I watched the video again Leaf. Professor Montangnier calls into question how most of us view AIDS.

My qualification concerning AIDS is personal. In the 80s I was tested for HIV several times. I had developed a sever stomach condition. I was deathly ill from it. As a result of my illness, AIDS was the fad disease back in those days that was causing a great amount of fear. Thankfully my HIV tests came back negative. The first cure for AIDS, AZT at high dose was still being prescribed back then. I feel fortunate to not have been given that toxic drug.

As a result of the test, out of curiosity I began researching AIDs in my spare time. What I discovered was the debate going on with what was causing AIDS. You have one side saying the virus is responsible and there is the other side saying that is not the case.

I’m quite happy with where I stand with my beliefs with HIV. If for some reason I tested positive for the virus I personally would not be worried over. Legally, that is a differnt story. If a doctor says I tested positive for HIV, then I need to take steps to protect myself and protect others.

You have your beliefs with the cause of AIDS, which I’m fine with.

If you would enjoy, here is an interview of Dr. Claus Kohnlein. He treats AIDS patients in Germany. Dr. Kohienin goes into detail on why he questions the theory of HIV causing AIDS. He believes other causes are responsible for harming a persons immune system.

youtube.com/watch?v=SiZJzvTNv5c


#17

But he does not question that HIV is the cause. He merely emphasizes the role of diet in fighting off the HIV virus - something that is not controversial at all.

My qualification concerning AIDS is personal. In the 80s I was tested for HIV several times. I had developed a sever stomach condition. I was deathly ill from it. As a result of my illness, AIDS was the fad disease back in those days that was causing a great amount of fear. Thankfully my HIV tests came back negative. The first cure for AIDS, AZT at high dose was still being prescribed back then. I feel fortunate to not have been given that toxic drug.

As a result of the test, out of curiosity I began researching AIDs in my spare time. What I discovered was the debate going on with what was causing AIDS. You have one side saying the virus is responsible and there is the other side saying that is not the case.

The two “sides” are not deserving of equal respect, because one side is clearly wrong.

You have your beliefs with the cause of AIDS, which I’m fine with.

They are not just “my beliefs”. They are established scientific fact.

If you would enjoy, here is an interview of Dr. Claus Kohnlein. He treats AIDS patients in Germany. Dr. Kohienin goes into detail on why he questions the theory of HIV causing AIDS. He believes other causes are responsible for harming a persons immune system.

youtube.com/watch?v=SiZJzvTNv5c

Most of what Dr. Kohienin is saying is related to specific treatment methods and their side effects and lack of effectiveness. It is a mistake to take from this that he thinks AIDS is not caused by HIV. He is also somewhat irresponsible to suggest that people without medical training should “go to the Internet” to make up their own mind about what causes AIDS.


#18

I think this thread is getting slightly off topic. The cause of AIDS isn’t part of the news story…

From what I heard on the radio the issue arose from a dental provider not following VA protocol in using disposable instruments. The provider was simply cleaning and reusing.

I do find it a little odd, as I’m almost positive most dental providers simply autoclave their instruments. Wonder what part of the process was compromised (other than the obvious breach of VA protocol)?


#19

Or healthcare on Indian Reservations.


#20

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.