New Mass Setting


#1

My parish has introduced a new Mass setting called "The Mass of St. Francis of Assisi," by Michael B. Lynch. Has any one heard of it? It mostly affects how the music is played for certain parts of the Mass, but there seems to be slight variations in the wording. Here's the website; what are your oppinions on it?

liturgyresource.org/2011/10/26/hello-world/


#2

It's not my least favorite Mass setting that I've heard, but I don't like how it's presented. I'm still not a fan of drums and trumpets during Mass. :rolleyes:


#3

At least it is freely downloadable so that we can all look at it. The first thing I checked is the Gloria. It is problematic. There are extra words in it. Even one which changes the meaning.

"And on the earth" - "the" is not in the Missal text.
"Peace to all." - the Missal text reads "Peace to people of good will." The meaning here is different. These words are inserted before the actual phrase - and why? To fit the meter?
"Peace to all the people of good will." Here is the actual phrase, and it's mangled by "the" again.
"O *Lord God, heavenly King"; "*O Lord God, almighty Father" - the Missal text does not contain "O". This would imply vocative case - is it in the Latin? It does not matter, it diverges from the official given English translation.

I will point out that this setting uses a refrain/verse structure, and some repetition, things which are controversial but not necessary illicit in themselves. The changing of words is definitely illicit. This music is not "in accordance with the new Roman Missal", it merely bears a passing resemblance to it. I would not use this Gloria for anything other than perhaps wrapping fish or lining bird cages.


#4

[quote="Elizium23, post:3, topic:321074"]
At least it is freely downloadable so that we can all look at it. The first thing I checked is the Gloria. It is problematic. There are extra words in it. Even one which changes the meaning.

"And on the earth" - "the" is not in the Missal text.
"Peace to all." - the Missal text reads "Peace to people of good will." The meaning here is different. These words are inserted before the actual phrase - and why? To fit the meter?
"Peace to all the people of good will." Here is the actual phrase, and it's mangled by "the" again.
"O *Lord God, heavenly King"; "*O Lord God, almighty Father" - the Missal text does not contain "O". This would imply vocative case - is it in the Latin? It does not matter, it diverges from the official given English translation.

I will point out that this setting uses a refrain/verse structure, and some repetition, things which are controversial but not necessary illicit in themselves. The changing of words is definitely illicit. This music is not "in accordance with the new Roman Missal", it merely bears a passing resemblance to it. I would not use this Gloria for anything other than perhaps wrapping fish or lining bird cages.

[/quote]

Thanks for the thorough response. I had a feeling the word changes were a big deal, but it was hard for me to tell by listening. This really bothers me since the Gloria was my favorite part of the Mass, out side of the Liturgy of the Eucharist.


#5

[quote="Elizium23, post:3, topic:321074"]
"O *Lord God, heavenly King"; "*O Lord God, almighty Father" - the Missal text does not contain "O". This would imply vocative case - is it in the Latin?

[/quote]

It's not in the Latin but some old handmissals do add the "O" to the translation. And yes, it is in the vocative case. Good catch.


#6

[quote="ProVobis, post:5, topic:321074"]
It's not in the Latin but some old handmissals do add the "O" to the translation. And yes, it is in the vocative case. Good catch.

[/quote]

There does seem to be some tradition to adding "O" when addressing God, especially when chanting.

For example, in the LOTH, the Ordinary says that if the introduction (God come to my assistance) is chanted, it can be extended to "O God...". The Mundelein Psalter (which is the ICEL LOTH with chant notation) uses the "O God..." formulation.

Now I'm no expert on english grammar, but I don't think the addition of "O" changes the meaning of the phrase.


#7

Thanks for the replies.

What's your opinions on changing the text to say "Peace to all the people of good will?"


#8

I, for one, wish that Mr. Lynch would revise his old responsorial "Gloria" that used to be in OCP missals/hymnals until within the last 5 years or so. Loved that one!


#9

[quote="curlycool89, post:6, topic:321074"]
Now I'm no expert on english grammar, but I don't think the addition of "O" changes the meaning of the phrase.

[/quote]

O 1 ()
interj.
1. Used before the name of or a pronoun referring to a person or thing being formally addressed: "How can I put it to you, O you who prepare to travel with important matters on your mind?" (Jo Durden-Smith).
2. Used to express surprise or strong emotion: "O how I laugh when I think of my vague indefinite riches" (Henry David Thoreau).


#10

[quote="C794, post:7, topic:321074"]
Thanks for the replies.

What's your opinions on changing the text to say "Peace to all the people of good will?"

[/quote]

What is my opinion of changing the words to something else that isn't in the Missal? :shrug:

Don't use this guy's text at all. The extra words are illicit, whether or not they change the meaning. There are lots of free Mass settings out there - and I mean totally free, not just "have a taste and we'll charge you for more" - that are totally faithful 100% to the Roman Missal English translation.


#11

[quote="Elizium23, post:10, topic:321074"]
What is my opinion of changing the words to something else that isn't in the Missal? :shrug:

Don't use this guy's text at all. The extra words are illicit, whether or not they change the meaning. There are lots of free Mass settings out there - and I mean totally free, not just "have a taste and we'll charge you for more" - that are totally faithful 100% to the Roman Missal English translation.

[/quote]

I agree I can't stand this Mass setting; I was more asking the other posters since they were focusing on the addition of "O." Sadly I can't prevent my parish from using it. This has already gone into affect there.


#12

[quote="Elizium23, post:10, topic:321074"]
What is my opinion of changing the words to something else that isn't in the Missal? :shrug:

**Don't use this guy's text at all. The extra words are illicit, whether or not they change the meaning. **There are lots of free Mass settings out there - and I mean totally free, not just "have a taste and we'll charge you for more" - that are totally faithful 100% to the Roman Missal English translation.

[/quote]

I agree entirely. Having lived through the liturgical chaos of the last 30 years I believe that the last thing we need is individual parishes and groups adapting the words of the new translation. We have waited so long for this, and so much work went into producing and promulgating it. Please, please, please can we just stick to the text.

Thanks for links. Most dioceses in Australia are using a very good "Mass of St Francis" created here, which is musically sound and faithful to the texts.


#13

Time to start checking out the chain of command in your diocese. Is your pastor aware that the setting diverges from the Missal translation? Have you talked to him about it? Have you rounded up a group of people who are likewise concerned about faithfulness to the liturgical texts?


#14

[quote="C794, post:11, topic:321074"]
I agree I can't stand this Mass setting; I was more asking the other posters since they were focusing on the addition of "O." Sadly I can't prevent my parish from using it. This has already gone into affect there.

[/quote]

Maybe now is the best time to try and stop this, before it becomes entrenched. I suggest that you compile a list of the differences from the approved text and take it up first with the priest, and then, if necessary, the bishop.

Tis only a suggestion. These things are very difficult to change, especially if the parish priest doesn't care about liturgical details and/or wants to keep the music ministers happy.


#15

[quote="Edmundus1581, post:14, topic:321074"]
Maybe now is the best time to try and stop this, before it becomes entrenched. I suggest that you compile a list of the differences from the approved text and take it up first with the priest, and then, if necessary, the bishop.

Tis only a suggestion. These things are very difficult to change, especially if the parish priest doesn't care about liturgical details and/or wants to keep the music ministers happy.

[/quote]

That might be a good idea; although, that gives me a second issue to bring to my pastor. In addition, the music style may already be entrenched, based on the attitudes of the parishoners. This is how they, including the priest, want the music. In regards to the change of wording: I doubt my priest will care, he has changed the text of the Mass at points. For example he omits men from the creed and ad libs the intro for the penitential right (this may be allowed though). I think I still may bring this up.


#16

[quote="C794, post:15, topic:321074"]
That might be a good idea; although, that gives me a second issue to bring to my pastor. In addition, the music style may already be entrenched, based on the attitudes of the parishoners. This is how they, including the priest, want the music. In regards to the change of wording: I doubt my priest will care, he has changed the text of the Mass at points. For example he omits men from the creed and ad libs the intro for the penitential right (this may be allowed though). I think I still may bring this up.

[/quote]

Best wishes with it all. Thanks for asking here. I hope you are able to find a way to do something about this.

Oh, don't even mention the music - you don't have a chance with that, and it will undermine your case. Just focus on the words.


#17

AFAIK, both the words and the music make this a copyright issue as well as a disobedience to the bishops issue.


#18

As I was thinking about it, I doubt I have a chance with either aspect. This music was already used at Mass, so our priest is aware of the word changes. If I try anything, it would be more of a formality before switching parishes. There have been other doctrinal issues there. I know very little about the history of my parish. I do know that the parisheners got a priest removed. Based off the little information I have I believe it was over doctrinal issues and that it's likely that the priest was orthodox. If that's the case they've already fought to be allowed the freedom to do things along these lines. I just hapened to come years later and make a bunch of good friends. These issues are really tearing me up; if I act I fear that a lot of friendships will be ruined.

I doubt there would be a copy right issue. From my understanding, the composer allows people to purchase his liturgical music. So I'm pretty sure my parish is able to use it legally.


#19

ProVobis is probably correct: the copyright issue is the fact that this composer ostensibly received permission from ICEL to reproduce the text of the Roman Missal, and then went and changed and added words. That would be a violation of his contract. You're not liable personally or as a parish, but the composer would be. +Sample, to the rescue? :thumbsup:


#20

[quote="Elizium23, post:19, topic:321074"]
ProVobis is probably correct: the copyright issue is the fact that this composer ostensibly received permission from ICEL to reproduce the text of the Roman Missal, and then went and changed and added words. That would be a violation of his contract. You're not liable personally or as a parish, but the composer would be. +Sample, to the rescue? :thumbsup:

[/quote]

That's a good point; I didn't think of that. I was more upset by the changes them self.


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