New text for a Communion song?


#1

Hello Everybody,
I wondered if anybody could help me.
I'm a classical composer and am currently working on a new Solemn Mass for the Easter time.

I am looking for a text for the Communion Song for Easter Sunday. Because this is a new composition, I would like the text to be new too (for example a contemporary sacred poem), but I would also consider a hymn that doesn't have a particularly famous music version.

Does anybody know of a suitable text, or could anybody point me in the right direction where I should look at?

Thanks!!

The work is not finished yet but if anybody wants to listen to some demo, this is the link to the youtube channel: youtube.com/playlist?list=PL352D9CD35B4ED477


#2

Wow! I was not expecting such a big help, but at least a “welcome”… and this is a Catholic forum…


#3

[quote="PetitPetrof, post:2, topic:333077"]
Wow! I was not expecting such a big help, but at least a "welcome"... and this is a Catholic forum...

[/quote]

Well welcome to you to! My advice would be to wait a bit longer yet. I've posted questions here and on other forums before, and it can take an afternoon to get a response. More so if it's a more complicated request like this.


#4

[quote="Razanir, post:3, topic:333077"]
Well welcome to you to! My advice would be to wait a bit longer yet. I've posted questions here and on other forums before, and it can take an afternoon to get a response. More so if it's a more complicated request like this.

[/quote]

Thanks for the reply and the welcome. No rush, I can certainly wait longer. It's just that I saw almost 170 visits to the discussion and thought that someone could at least say hello. ;)


#5

[quote="PetitPetrof, post:1, topic:333077"]
Hello Everybody,
I wondered if anybody could help me.
I'm a classical composer and am currently working on a new Solemn Mass for the Easter time.

I am looking for a text for the Communion Song for Easter Sunday. Because this is a new composition, I would like the text to be new too (for example a contemporary sacred poem), but I would also consider a hymn that doesn't have a particularly famous music version.

Does anybody know of a suitable text, or could anybody point me in the right direction where I should look at?

Thanks!!

The work is not finished yet but if anybody wants to listen to some demo, this is the link to the youtube channel: youtube.com/playlist?list=PL352D9CD35B4ED477

[/quote]

Do you know the wonderful hymn Hail Thee Festival Day from the English Hymnal? It is an Anglican composition based on an ancient Latin hymn with the wonderful tune by Ralph Vaughan Williams Salve Festa Dies. It is not well known in Catholic circles being more of a traditional High Anglican hymn, but it might be useful material on which to base your song. Here is some links:

youtube.com/watch?v=I2hZJM7iw0s

bbc.co.uk/programmes/p016zqly

Good luck and welcome to CAF!


#6

[quote="liturgyluver, post:5, topic:333077"]
Do you know the wonderful hymn Hail Thee Festival Day from the English Hymnal? It is an Anglican composition based on an ancient Latin hymn with the wonderful tune by Ralph Vaughan Williams Salve Festa Dies. It is not well known in Catholic circles being more of a traditional High Anglican hymn, but it might be useful material on which to base your song. Here is some links:

youtube.com/watch?v=I2hZJM7iw0s

bbc.co.uk/programmes/p016zqly

Good luck and welcome to CAF!

[/quote]

Thank you very much for the suggestion as I didn't know the piece, although I live in London. I'd rather have a text that has never been put into music before, though, as I am not doing arrangements of existing songs but an entirely new composition.
Do you know of any website or book of sacred poems I could have a look at?
Thanks!


#7

[quote="PetitPetrof, post:6, topic:333077"]
Thank you very much for the suggestion as I didn't know the piece, although I live in London. I'd rather have a text that has never been put into music before, though, as I am not doing arrangements of existing songs but an entirely new composition.
Do you know of any website or book of sacred poems I could have a look at?
Thanks!

[/quote]

How about some of the prayers from the Iona Community? They are beautiful. There is a wonderful book published by Collins called "Celtic Daily Prayer" that is worth a look.


#8

[quote="liturgyluver, post:7, topic:333077"]
How about some of the prayers from the Iona Community? They are beautiful. There is a wonderful book published by Collins called "Celtic Daily Prayer" that is worth a look.

[/quote]

Thanks a lot! Didn't know about it and it sounds exactly what I was hoping for. I'll have a look. :thumbsup:


#9

Are you interested in Latin or English…

P.s. Is the Solemn Mass you are talking about going to be in the Extraordinary Form?


#10

[quote="holyfamily1, post:9, topic:333077"]
Are you interested in Latin or English..

P.s. Is the Solemn Mass you are talking about going to be in the Extraordinary Form?

[/quote]

This is a Mass based on the Second Vatican Council, and it's not in Latin but in English. In my first post you can find a link to some demo videos. The composing is finished but I still have to complete the orchestration of the Entrance Antiphon, the Holy and the Final Blessing, plus the Communion Song.
The Creed is not put in music but left to the people to recite, as established by the Second Vatican Council (but there is the Responsorial Psalm). In any event, although potentially suitable for the liturgy, it is a concert piece, as it requires a big orchestra and double choir, plus 4 soloists. It's a Mass for Easter Time and is dedicated to Card. Carlo Maria Martini.


#11

[quote="PetitPetrof, post:10, topic:333077"]
This is a Mass based on the Second Vatican Council, and it's not in Latin but in English. In my first post you can find a link to some demo videos. The composing is finished but I still have to complete the orchestration of the Entrance Antiphon, the Holy and the Final Blessing, plus the Communion Song.
The Creed is not put in music but left to the people to recite, as established by the Second Vatican Council (but there is the Responsorial Psalm). In any event, although potentially suitable for the liturgy, it is a concert piece, as it requires a big orchestra and double choir, plus 4 soloists. It's a Mass for Easter Time and is dedicated to Card. Carlo Maria Martini.

[/quote]

As to the creed--- Pope John Paul II and Paul VI both wished that the creed and Our Father be chanted in latin. Give it a chance... :D

Our Father: youtube.com/watch?v=GhZBj1Runp8
Creed: youtube.com/watch?v=yDortyyp228

Consider it... :thumbsup:


#12

[quote="holyfamily1, post:11, topic:333077"]
As to the creed--- Pope John Paul II and Paul VI both wished that the creed and Our Father be chanted in latin. Give it a chance... :D

Our Father: youtube.com/watch?v=GhZBj1Runp8
Creed: youtube.com/watch?v=yDortyyp228

Consider it... :thumbsup:

[/quote]

And Pope Francis, in his homily of July 6th at Domus Sanctae Marthae, said we shouldn't be afraid of renovating the structures of the Church. ;)
In any event, my Mass follows the teachings of the Second Vatican Council: because there is no Penitential Act, the Kyrie (Lord, have mercy) includes invocations and the acclamations are sung twice; the Gloria can potentially be sung by the people; the Creed is not included because it's the prayer of the faithful so the whole people should participate and not just the schola. The work uses double choir, 4 soloists with pop voices and symphony orchestra with electric guitar, electric bass, and drums.

Besides, I used English because as the Second Vatican Council taught it's more important that the message is fully understood by the faithful. Latin in music has become just a "sound" unfortunately, and it's almost like communicating the message is no longer important.
By the way, artistically it's not a great idea to have one piece in one language and all the others in another. :D


#13

[quote="PetitPetrof, post:12, topic:333077"]
And Pope Francis, in his homily of July 6th at Domus Sanctae Marthae, said we shouldn't be afraid of renovating the structures of the Church. ;)
In any event, my Mass follows the teachings of the Second Vatican Council: because there is no Penitential Act, the Kyrie (Lord, have mercy) includes invocations and the acclamations are sung twice; the Gloria can potentially be sung by the people; the Creed is not included because it's the prayer of the faithful so the whole people should participate and not just the schola. The work uses double choir, 4 soloists with pop voices and symphony orchestra with electric guitar, electric bass, and drums.

Besides, I used English because as the Second Vatican Council taught it's more important that the message is fully understood by the faithful. Latin in music has become just a "sound" unfortunately, and it's almost like communicating the message is no longer important.
By the way, artistically it's not a great idea to have one piece in one language and all the others in another. :D

[/quote]

You need to re-read the Vatican II documents and what Pope Francis said because, that is not at all what they taught. The Vatican II constitution Sacrosanctum Concilium says that Latin needs to be preserved within the liturgy. Drums and guitar are not appropriate for the sacred liturgy; read the Vatican II document on sacred music..it says Gregorian chant is to be given the highest esteem. You have have fallen under some heavy misconceptions- Vatican II wasn't as liberal as most people think. Read the documents.


#14

[quote="holyfamily1, post:13, topic:333077"]
You need to re-read the Vatican II documents and what Pope Francis said because, that is not at all what they taught. The Vatican II constitution Sacrosanctum Concilium says that Latin needs to be preserved within the liturgy. Drums and guitar are not appropriate for the sacred liturgy; read the Vatican II document on sacred music..it says Gregorian chant is to be given the highest esteem. You have have fallen under some heavy misconceptions- Vatican II wasn't as liberal as most people think. Read the documents.

[/quote]

I read the documents, and even took part in a Conference on Sacred Music held at the Vatican a few years ago (I used to live in Rome at the time), where it was hoped for new sacred music to find again an artistic quality comparable to that of the past, as well as a renewed attention to the communication of the text.
As for the language, yes, Latin needs to be preserved, but alongside liturgy and music in the vernacular languages, because this is helpful for the faithful. And even the Council of Trent had considered the excessive use of polyphony as a barrier for a true and meaningful comprehension of the Word.
As for the instruments, there is no "inappropriate" instrument if this is used to preserve the dignity of the temple and the liturgy: "Other instruments also may be admitted for use in divine worship, with the knowledge and consent of the competent territorial authority (...) on condition that the instruments are suitable, or can be made suitable, for sacred use, accord with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful."
Finally, re Gregorian chant: "other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations, so long as they accord with the spirit of the liturgical action".
All quotes are from the Constitution Sacrosantum Concilium, according to which "the Church approves of all forms of true art having the needed qualities, and admits them into divine worship".

In any event, as I said earlier, my 'Resurrection Mass' requires too large resources in terms of choir and orchestra as well as musical skills on the part of the performers, and is therefore unlikely it can be performed during liturgy, although potentially suitable for it and for the direct participation of the people.

Anyway, only the Roman Catholic Church debates on the use of the language as an end and not as what it should be, that is a means to express and communicate the message of faith and the word.

My job as a composer, a creative, is not that to preserve but to innovate.


#15

[quote="PetitPetrof, post:14, topic:333077"]
I read the documents, and even took part in a Conference on Sacred Music held at the Vatican a few years ago (I used to live in Rome at the time), where it was hoped for new sacred music to find again an artistic quality comparable to that of the past, as well as a renewed attention to the communication of the text.
As for the language, yes, Latin needs to be preserved, but alongside liturgy and music in the vernacular languages, because this is helpful for the faithful. And even the Council of Trent had considered the excessive use of polyphony as a barrier for a true and meaningful comprehension of the Word.
As for the instruments, there is no "inappropriate" instrument if this is used to preserve the dignity of the temple and the liturgy: "Other instruments also may be admitted for use in divine worship, with the knowledge and consent of the competent territorial authority (...) on condition that the instruments are suitable, or can be made suitable, for sacred use, accord with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful."
Finally, re Gregorian chant: "other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations, so long as they accord with the spirit of the liturgical action".
All quotes are from the Constitution Sacrosantum Concilium, according to which "the Church approves of all forms of true art having the needed qualities, and admits them into divine worship".

In any event, as I said earlier, my 'Resurrection Mass' requires too large resources in terms of choir and orchestra as well as musical skills on the part of the performers, and is therefore unlikely it can be performed during liturgy, although potentially suitable for it and for the direct participation of the people.

Anyway, only the Roman Catholic Church debates on the use of the language as an end and not as what it should be, that is a means to express and communicate the message of faith and the word.

My job as a composer, a creative, is not that to preserve but to innovate.

[/quote]

Well, you said that Latin needs to be preserved — than you said we shouldn't use any because it detracts from the faithful fully comprehending the H. Mass.

Do we really think guitars and drums are appropriate for Mass? Seriously? Mass isn't a concert- it is the unbloody sacrifice of Calvary. It still isn't the 70's thankfully.

I suggest making a trip over to ChantCafe.com


#16

[quote="holyfamily1, post:15, topic:333077"]
Well, you said that Latin needs to be preserved — than you said we shouldn't use any because it detracts from the faithful fully comprehending the H. Mass.

Do we really think guitars and drums are appropriate for Mass? Seriously? Mass isn't a concert- it is the unbloody sacrifice of Calvary. It still isn't the 70's thankfully.

I suggest making a trip over to ChantCafe.com

[/quote]

It depends how you use them!
Is knife a lethal weapon? I don't use it as such, but to cut my steak at dinner...

Anyway, as a creative I do what I think I have to do; my work doesn't have to please everybody and I certainly don't have to convince you to change your mind (as I suppose you don't think you will change mine).

But we are now going off topic- :-)


#17

If you read the documents they are very clear that the expectation was that congregations should be expected to chant the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin, but that is not the same as saying that every mass setting has to be in Latin. In fact what the documents said was that:

*since “the use of the vernacular may frequently be of great advantage to the people”[31] “it is for the competent territorial ecclesiastical authority to decide whether, and to what extent, the vernacular language is to be used. Its decrees have to be approved, that is, confirmed by the Apostolic See.”[32]

In observing these norms exactly, one will therefore employ that form of participation which best matches the capabilities of each congregation.

Pastors of souls should take care that besides the vernacular “the faithful may also be able to say or sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.”[33]

  1. Where the vernacular has been introduced into the celebration of Mass, the local Ordinaries will judge whether it may be opportune to preserve one or more Masses celebrated in Latin—especially sung Masses (Missae in cantu)—in certain churches, above all in large cities, where many come together with faithful of different languages.*

Further the documents say the Pipe Organ should be held in high esteem but also specifically allow the use of other instruments at mass.

Finally, it says that Gregroian Chant should be given “pride of place in sung celebrations in Latin”

Key above all to Vatican II was that people have the ability to participate in the liturgy and take out the light of Christ into the world.


#18

[quote="liturgyluver, post:17, topic:333077"]
If you read the documents they are very clear that the expectation was that congregations should be expected to chant the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin, but that is not the same as saying that every mass setting has to be in Latin. In fact what the documents said was that:

*since "the use of the vernacular may frequently be of great advantage to the people"[31] "it is for the competent territorial ecclesiastical authority to decide whether, and to what extent, the vernacular language is to be used. Its decrees have to be approved, that is, confirmed by the Apostolic See."[32]

In observing these norms exactly, one will therefore employ that form of participation which best matches the capabilities of each congregation.

Pastors of souls should take care that besides the vernacular "the faithful may also be able to say or sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them."[33]

  1. Where the vernacular has been introduced into the celebration of Mass, the local Ordinaries will judge whether it may be opportune to preserve one or more Masses celebrated in Latin—especially sung Masses (Missae in cantu)—in certain churches, above all in large cities, where many come together with faithful of different languages.*

Further the documents say the Pipe Organ should be held in high esteem but also specifically allow the use of other instruments at mass.

Finally, it says that Gregroian Chant should be given "pride of place in sung celebrations in Latin"

Key above all to Vatican II was that people have the ability to participate in the liturgy and take out the light of Christ into the world.

[/quote]

I know what it says. I don't believe I said the entire Mass should be in Latin.


#19

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