New translations of the Mass in other countries?


#1

We introduced the new translation of the missal in the English speaking world in 2007. Are other countires preparing to do so soon or in the near future?


#2

[quote="NorthTexan88, post:1, topic:336381"]
We introduced the new translation of the missal in the English speaking world in 2007. Are other countires preparing to do so soon or in the near future?

[/quote]

At least not for countries whose languages derive from latin (Spanish, Italian and French). Previously to the change done in the English missal, the English missal and the Spanish/Italian missal.were different. With the change now the new English missal is a direct translation of the Spanish missal. Before the English used to say something completely different.


#3

[quote="NorthTexan88, post:1, topic:336381"]
We introduced the new translation of the missal in the English speaking world in 2007. Are other countires preparing to do so soon or in the near future?

[/quote]

No, we introduced it in Advent, 2011. It was the result of years of criticism of the mistranslations that had existed since Advent, 1969.


#4

[quote="Chatter163, post:3, topic:336381"]
No, we introduced it in Advent, 2011. It was the result of years of criticism of the mistranslations that had existed since Advent, 1969.

[/quote]

Didn't South Africa "jump the gun" so-to-speak, and introduce at least part of it several years earlier?


#5

For us Swahili speakers, we're using the new one, I think from last year. Not sure since what month.


#6

There was a minor change in French. At the OT and epistle readings, the assembly woud respond "nous rendons gloire à Dieu". This is an incorrect translation of "Deo gratias". Un 2011 it was changed in French to "Nous rendons grâce à Dieu".

The rest was unchanged.


#7

[quote="OraLabora, post:6, topic:336381"]
There was a minor change in French. At the OT and epistle readings, the assembly woud respond "nous rendons gloire à Dieu". This is an incorrect translation of "Deo gratias". Un 2011 it was changed in French to "Nous rendons grâce à Dieu".

The rest was unchanged.

[/quote]

Now that you mention this I think there was, maybe, I would say during the sixties a similar change in Spanish because I remember now my grandmother saying that in those days when women used to cover their head and the priest would offer the mass giving their back to the assembly, it was "gloire/gloria" at the epistle readings. But while I was growing up it was "demos Gracias a dios"."nous rendons grace a dieu" so I am going to guess that change was made either before I was born or when I was very small


#8

[quote="NorthTexan88, post:1, topic:336381"]
We introduced the new translation of the missal in the English speaking world in 2007. Are other countires preparing to do so soon or in the near future?

[/quote]

I hope so. Some translations in the vernacular are disheartening!

I took a look at the Portuguese missal for World Youth Day and I was very surprised.

Latin:

Dominus vobiscum.
Et cum spirito tuo.

Portuguese...

O Senhor esteja convosco.
Ele esta no meio de nos.

What's the second phrase? Doesn't sound like "and with your spirit" to me. Sounds like something entirely different..."he is amidst us"...:confused:

Here's a few other ones:

"Word of the Lord" -> "Word of Salvation"
"Praise to you, Christ" -> "Glory to you, Lord"

*Verbum Domini
Laus tibi, Christe *

Palavra da Salvacao.
Gloria a vos, Senhor.

"bringing to the altar the joys and efforts of every day"...?

Orate, fratres, ut meum ac vestrum sacrificium acceptabile fiat apud Deum Patrem omnipotentem.

Orai, irmãos e irmãs, para que, levando ao altar as alegrias e fadigas de cada dia, nos disponhamos a oferecer um sacrifício aceito por Deus Pai todo-poderoso.

"For many" -> "for all" ...

qui pro vobis et pro multis effendetur

que sera derramado por vos e por todos

"And with your spirit" now takes a new turn and becomes "the love of Christ unites us"...!

Pax Dòmini sit semper vobìscum.
Et cum spirito tuo.

A paz do Senhor esteja sempre convosco!
O amor de Cristo nos uniu.

Also Spanish has its issues...I know because I attend Mass in Spanish every so often...

"Deo gratias" becomes "Te alabamos, Señor" (we praise you, Lord)

"Laus tibi, Christe" becomes "Gloria a Ti, Señor Jesús." (glory to you, Lord Jesus)

"Dignum" becomes "necesario" (?)

"Pro multis" is not just changed to "for all", no, even more clearly, "por todos los hombres"!!

And we are talking about two major Romance languages, Spanish and Portuguese...I don't even want to look into missals in other languages...

...so I pray that the Holy See may do something about this soon...!


#9

[quote="OraLabora, post:6, topic:336381"]
There was a minor change in French. At the OT and epistle readings, the assembly woud respond "nous rendons gloire à Dieu". This is an incorrect translation of "Deo gratias". Un 2011 it was changed in French to "Nous rendons grâce à Dieu".

The rest was unchanged.

[/quote]

We're still waiting for the new French translation of the French Missal, according to my copy of Présentation Générale du Missel Romain, Les adaptations canadiennes published in 2012. Those accompany the book L'art de célébrer la Messe. Présentation Générale du Missel Romain, 3e édition typique 2002, Desclée/Mame, 2008


#10

[quote="NorthTexan88, post:1, topic:336381"]
We introduced the new translation of the missal in the English speaking world in 2007. Are other countires preparing to do so soon or in the near future?

[/quote]

There were enough changes in the 3rd typical edition that it is necessary to revise the translations into other languages. English one is done, the French one is close, I don't know what the situation is with the other languages.


#11

The Spanish "por todos" (for all) was changed to "por muchos," at least in my territorial parish.

Still don't know if the Italian bishops did the same in the Italian Mass.


#12

[quote="R_C, post:8, topic:336381"]
I hope so. Some translations in the vernacular are disheartening!

I took a look at the Portuguese missal for World Youth Day and I was very surprised.

Latin:

Portuguese...

What's the second phrase? Doesn't sound like "and with your spirit" to me. Sounds like something entirely different..."he is amidst us"...:confused:

Here's a few other ones:

"Word of the Lord" -> "Word of Salvation"
"Praise to you, Christ" -> "Glory to you, Lord"

"bringing to the altar the joys and efforts of every day"...?

again in Spanish sounds different and shorter oremos hermanos para Que este sacrificio sea agradable ante dios padre todopoderoso

"For many" -> "for all" ...
we used to use para ustedes

"And with your spirit" now takes a new turn and becomes "the love of Christ unites us"...!

Also Spanish has its issues...I know because I attend Mass in Spanish every so often...

"Deo gratias" becomes "Te alabamos, Señor" (we praise you, Lord)

"Laus tibi, Christe" becomes "Gloria a Ti, Señor Jesús." (glory to you, Lord Jesus)

"Dignum" becomes "necesario" (?)

"Pro multis" is not just changed to "for all", no, even more clearly, "por todos los hombres"!!

And we are talking about two major Romance languages, Spanish and Portuguese...I don't even want to look into missals in other languages...

...so I pray that the Holy See may do something about this soon...!

[/quote]

:eek: wow! I used to wonder why the English and Spanish missals were so different, now after reading this I wonder why it looks so different everywhere!!! The te alabamos, Gloria a ti, was what I mentioning that my grandmother used to say they used in the past. when I was growing up we used demos Gracias a dios. I don't remember ever hearing por todos los hombres when I was growing up, it used to be again por ustedes. Definitely I wouldn't want to look.at other languages hehehe. Would it be that it has to with the particular diocesis??? :?


#13

[quote="marymary1975, post:12, topic:336381"]
I don't remember ever hearing por todos los hombres

[/quote]

I believe the los hombres was dropped in 1973, around the same time as "men" (as in "for all men") was dropped in the P.C. English.


#14

[quote="Phemie, post:10, topic:336381"]
There were enough changes in the 3rd typical edition that it is necessary to revise the translations into other languages. English one is done, the French one is close, I don't know what the situation is with the other languages.

[/quote]

I'm not sure the English one is done or ever will be. St. Joseph was just added into the EP.

Seems like we synchronize all this (as well as minimize costs associated with formal translations and approval) by just simply using the Latin. We're talking hundreds and hundreds of vernaculars.


#15

[quote="ProVobis, post:14, topic:336381"]
I'm not sure the English one is done or ever will be. St. Joseph was just added into the EP.

Seems like we synchronize all this (as well as minimize costs associated with formal translations and approval) by just simply using the Latin. We're talking hundreds and hundreds of vernaculars.

[/quote]

And many vernaculars with makeshift translations, like the Innuemun translation used in missionary territory around here, done by a single priest who spent time here. There are at least three separate dialects of the language spoken by approximately 20,000 people in northern Quebec and Labrador.


#16

[quote="ProVobis, post:14, topic:336381"]
I'm not sure the English one is done or ever will be. St. Joseph was just added into the EP. .

[/quote]

I meant that the English translation of the 2002 3rd edition is done. There is now edition 3.0.1 (+ St. Joseph) and who knows how many tweaks will be made to the Latin edition before they issue the 4th typical edition.


#17

[quote="Phemie, post:16, topic:336381"]
I meant that the English translation of the 2002 3rd edition is done. There is now edition 3.0.1 (+ St. Joseph) and **who knows how many tweaks **will be made to the Latin edition before they issue the 4th typical edition.

[/quote]

Precisely. Some remember just how difficult it was to add St. Joseph to the 1962 Missal, which was never officially translated. Not to mention the removal of the 2nd confiteor which still hasn't made it into all EF Masses.

I feel at some point the Church will just have to forego retranslations into the many vernaculars and/or eliminate some vernaculars altogether if they haven't already. This at least from an economic standpoint.


#18

[quote="Phemie, post:15, topic:336381"]
There are at least three separate dialects of the language spoken by approximately 20,000 people in northern Quebec and Labrador.

[/quote]

How many know that there are differences between U.S. and the U.K. English (probably Australian and Canadian, as well.) For example, I was just discussing the meaning of the word "ashamed" the other day with a friend and we had different interpretations.

Yet, only one English edition is used throughout the English-speaking world.


#19

[quote="ProVobis, post:18, topic:336381"]
How many know that there are differences between U.S. and the U.K. English (probably Australian and Canadian, as well.) For example, I was just discussing the meaning of the word "ashamed" the other day with a friend and we had different interpretations.

Yet, only one English edition is used throughout the English-speaking world.

[/quote]

Different interpretations of 'ashamed'???


#20

[quote="Phemie, post:19, topic:336381"]
Different interpretations of 'ashamed'???

[/quote]

I don't know. Would "Father Christmas" have worked better? Or "gay apparel"? Golly good. :)


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