Newborn died in hospital while co-sleeping with mom


#21

We did not ever co-sleep full time, but I did let my second child sleep in the bed a little bit on and off when I was nursing him at night. I don’t want to put words in my husband’s mouth, but his peacefully sleeping figure looked pretty ok with the idea of everyone getting a few more minutes of desperately needed rest.


#22

[quote="sanctareparata, post:17, topic:247937"]
About 64 babies die every year in adult beds. Almost 45% of those die while on a sofa (that counts as an adult bed for the stats). Another large percentage are rollovers by parents who were drunk, on drugs, or on sleep aids or other meds. If I remember correctly, another 1/5 of the deaths occurred on waterbeds. The other deaths are usually from an unsafe environment - pillows, heavy bedding, siblings in the bed, and of course, infants unattended on a bed altogether.

[/quote]

So it looks like the vast majority (if not all) deaths were because of co-sleeping no-no's. Maybe instead of a blanket "You shouldn't be sleeping in the same bed as your baby" this should be an educational opportunity for nurses and doctors.

People are going to co-sleep anyway, whether they're told to or not. I guess I'm not understanding why there's not more education, unless its too crunchy for mainstream docs to deal with.

ETA: I'm not arguing with you, sorry if it came off like that :o


#23

[quote="cmscms, post:20, topic:247937"]
Also, I can't help but think if that it is a bit of a hard pill to swallow for a man. The fact that his wife wants to sleep with the kid instead of him. It has nothing to do with sex, just that at night, even if they are on opposite sides of the bed, you share the same bed as your spouse and no one esle.

[/quote]

Who said instead?

DH curls up right next to me, and baby sleeps on the other side of me. I don't know too many moms who put the baby in the middle. Dads are less aware.

FWIW, DH loves cosleeping.


#24

I agree. Instead of saying No, we should be teaching people how to do it the right way.

I also noted when looking at the statistics that rollovers were also from caregivers who were not “programmed”, if you will, to know how to sleep with a baby. Like a grandma or babysitter or dad bringing a baby to bed with them and not remembering through the night that there was someone else in their bed (or on the sofa).


#25

And if your DH loves co-sleeping there is no problem. I have heard men complain that they felt jealous after the baby because their wife gave them a lot less attention. Personally, I would want a marriage where babies/kids would not sleep in the parents bed. Am I not allowed my opinion?

CM


#26

Ditto this.

After my C-sections when I’m on pain-killers I always have my mother or my husband watch the baby and me while I’m asleep, or else I have them put the baby back in his bed. But when we come home from the hospital and I’m rested up and off the meds, we co-sleep. The risk factors I’m aware of are:

  1. Exhaustion (which, ironically, can be abated by nursing while co-sleeping)
  2. Drugs or alcohol
  3. Obesity
  4. Infant health problems (my daughter with neonatal seizures was on a barbiturate that caused very deep sleep)
  5. Father too close to baby (dads don’t have the same wake-up instincts that moms do)
  6. Very soft bedding

I still intend to co-sleep with our next son when he arrives in October.

Prayers for the poor mother who is suffering the loss of her child. :frowning:


#27

[quote="cmscms, post:25, topic:247937"]
And if your DH loves co-sleeping there is no problem. I have heard men complain that they felt jealous after the baby because their wife gave them a lot less attention. Personally, I would want a marriage where babies/kids would not sleep in the parents bed. Am I not allowed my opinion?

CM

[/quote]

My reply wasn't intended to be rude.
Yes, there are SOME men who don't like cosleeping, but you were feeling sorry for men in general, and I just told you that MY man likes it. :shrug:
No need to be insulted.


#28

[quote="Lil_Cat, post:18, topic:247937"]
Yep, which is my point.

People have been co-sleeping for MILLENNIA and from my understanding crib death is a relatively new phenomenon because it has only been in recent history that Baby has been left in a room by themselves.

We put DD on her tummy to sleep as soon as she came home from the hospital, and she slept in the bed with us from day one. Oh the horrors!!

Its amazing that the human race hasn't died off with all the "no-no's" that we have now that people practiced for thousands of years :)

And I'm still curious about the number of crib deaths vs. co-sleeping deaths at the pediatric hospital. Mostly because I read about infant sleep in my spare time and I would like to hear actual experiences of hospital employees :nerd:

[/quote]

While I am a big proponent of infants sleeping in the same room as parents (significantly decreases the incidence of SIDS, likely because parents are better able to sense, hear, and react to any problems) placing babies to sleep on their tummies is simply unwise.

There has been significant recent research indicating that a likely cause of SIDS is a problem with serotonin that prevents some infants from stirring to move if there is not enough "fresh" air to breathe, as can happen when the child is on his tummy. Overheating has also been pinpointed as a contributing factor. Hence, back sleeping, light night clothes or swaddling, and well-circulated air are all important in minimizing the risk of SIDS.

We've all survived something that has now been shown to be dangerous to our health; it doesn't mean that recent discoveries should be scoffed at, especially when our children's lives are at stake. The huge decrease in SIDS since the campaign for back sleeping speaks for itself.


#29

Ok, thanks for explaining :slight_smile:


#30

[quote="cmscms, post:20, topic:247937"]
I have never had kids but personally, I would not want a baby in my bed. I have no idea how anyone can get a good night sleep when in the back of their mind they have to pay attention to not rolling over on a baby.

[/quote]

I know it seems hard to imagine, but you may feel quite differently if and when you do have a baby.

Having tried it both ways, my experience was that it is much harder to get a good night's sleep waking up every 2-3 hours to go get a crying baby (who has already woken up completely because nobody responded to his early, half-asleep hunger signals), staying awake *through feedings (making sure not to nod off and drop the baby!), and then getting the baby *back down (ever so gently so he doesn't wake up again!) and going back to bed (now nearly wide awake because you've been up for an hour). Add "making a bottle" to that list, and you have a complete recipe for a sleepless night. No wonder so many parents are so eager to get their infants sleeping through the night.

Where do you think artists get their inspiration for zombies, anyway? :p


#31

[quote="surfinpure, post:30, topic:247937"]
I know it seems hard to imagine, but you may feel quite differently if and when you do have a baby.

Having tried it both ways, my experience was that it is much harder to get a good night's sleep waking up every 2-3 hours to go get a crying baby (who has already woken up completely because nobody responded to his early, half-asleep hunger signals), staying awake *through feedings (making sure not to nod off and drop the baby!), and then getting the baby *back down (ever so gently so he doesn't wake up again!) and going back to bed (now nearly wide awake because you've been up for an hour). Add "making a bottle" to that list, and you have a complete recipe for a sleepless night. No wonder so many parents are so eager to get their infants sleeping through the night.

Where do you think artists get their inspiration for zombies, anyway? :p

[/quote]

I've said it on here before, but when my second baby was born, he wanted nothing to do with sleeping in our bed. I don't think he liked being nursed while lying down next to me. I would have to wake up, get out of bed, get him out of the cosleeper next to me, carry him to the glider rocker, and nurse him. Anyway, my point is, I WAS that zombie....and I dropped him twice as I sat there nursing him. Right there....plop....onto the floor. :eek:


#32

[quote="sanctareparata, post:31, topic:247937"]
I've said it on here before, but when my second baby was born, he wanted nothing to do with sleeping in our bed. I don't think he liked being nursed while lying down next to me. I would have to wake up, get out of bed, get him out of the cosleeper next to me, carry him to the glider rocker, and nurse him. Anyway, my point is, I WAS that zombie....and I dropped him twice as I sat there nursing him. Right there....plop....onto the floor. :eek:

[/quote]

There you go! And I tried not co-sleeping with our second (our first nurser) and found out quickly how easily an accident can happen when you get out of bed half-asleep to nurse a baby. For instance, I'd fall asleep on the couch with him in the crook of my arm, only to wake up and panic, finding him lodged between me and the sofa cushion! :eek: So, as it turns out, he would have been much safer in the bed!


#33

[quote="dixieagle, post:28, topic:247937"]
While I am a big proponent of infants sleeping in the same room as parents (significantly decreases the incidence of SIDS, likely because parents are better able to sense, hear, and react to any problems) placing babies to sleep on their tummies is simply unwise.

There has been significant recent research indicating that a likely cause of SIDS is a problem with serotonin that prevents some infants from stirring to move if there is not enough "fresh" air to breathe, as can happen when the child is on his tummy. Overheating has also been pinpointed as a contributing factor. Hence, back sleeping, light night clothes or swaddling, and well-circulated air are all important in minimizing the risk of SIDS.

We've all survived something that has now been shown to be dangerous to our health; it doesn't mean that recent discoveries should be scoffed at, especially when our children's lives are at stake. The huge decrease in SIDS since the campaign for back sleeping speaks for itself.

[/quote]

While I understand what you're you're saying (and appreciate the info!), I think the problem I have with the whole back vs. tummy sleeping is that it constantly changes. I wouldn't be surprised if when my grandkids are born that sleep experts recommend sleeping on their tummy and it comes full circle from when I was a baby.

So the way I see it, I'm the parent and I have to go with my gut based on conflicting information and then take responsibility for the outcome. DD is 13 months now, so its not even an issue anymore.


#34

[quote="noclevername, post:10, topic:247937"]
Co-sleeping is very dangerous. I work part-time in a pediatric hospital. If we have a patient under six months of age and the parent insists on co-sleeping, they have to sign a release form and that form has to be witnessed. I understand the flexiblity it offers, especially with nursing, but it's a dangerous habit. An infant suffocating from co-sleeping with a parent happens a lot more than newspapers report.

[/quote]

I totally agree with you ! I cannot comprehend how so many of the other members of this forum are for co-sleeping. My sister has those same feelings, and did it with all 3 of her kids. I will never understand it !

I'm 53 yrs old, have 2 grown boys, and I never ever would have thought to do that with them. To me it is just common sense to "not" do that. My daughter-in-law, did it with 2 of my grandkids, and I always worried about it.

First off.............the parent/parents can easily suffocate the baby, because they are soooo close to the baby........Secondly.............they can "easily" be very tired from not getting enough sleep at night and throughout the day, especially if you have other kids to take care of, so if they are super tired...hence the chance of suffocating the baby is real likely...........and Third............... mothers need to get their deep rest/sleep so they can produce good milk, and so they can function well to take care of their family, and if they have that constant reminder in the back of their minds that their baby is sleeping with them, how can they really get a good sleep ???

Doesn't this all make sense to people ? I just don't get it !!!


#35

[quote="alohalady, post:34, topic:247937"]
I totally agree with you ! I cannot comprehend how so many of the other members of this forum are for co-sleeping. My sister has those same feelings, and did it with all 3 of her kids. I will never understand it !

I'm 53 yrs old, have 2 grown boys, and I never ever would have thought to do that with them. To me it is just common sense to "not" do that. My daughter-in-law, did it with 2 of my grandkids, and I always worried about it.

First off.............the parent/parents can easily suffocate the baby, because they are soooo close to the baby........Secondly.............they can "easily" be very tired from not getting enough sleep at night and throughout the day, especially if you have other kids to take care of, so if they are super tired...hence the chance of suffocating the baby is real likely...........and Third............... mothers need to get their deep rest/sleep so they can produce good milk, and so they can function well to take care of their family, and if they have that constant reminder in the back of their minds that their baby is sleeping with them, how can they really get a good sleep ???

Doesn't this all make sense to people ? I just don't get it !!!

[/quote]

Oh........one other thing............What is soooo wrong with having the baby sleeping in their own bed/crib next to the mom ???


#36

My experience has been opposite. It was much harder to get a good night’s sleep while laying in an uncomfortable position to feed baby, making sure I don’t suffocate them with my large chest, keeping my pillows and blankets away from baby, having no room to toss and turn and fear of waking baby if I did, etc. When I had them in cribs or bassinets in our room, or even across the hall, I always went to them right away, not when they were worked up, it wasn’t too much trouble to put them back down after, I still had to make sure I didn’t suffocate them, and either way I had to get up to change them at least once (heavy wetters). It all only ever took about 10 minutes, tops, not an hour. :shrug: No trouble going back to sleep except when I have insomnia anyhow.

I’m not attacking you or anything surfinpure, I just don’t want some pregnant woman reading this feeling like they’ll have to co-sleep if they’re going to survive. Its different for everybody.

I think a great compromise may be a side-car arrangement.


#37

[quote="sanctareparata, post:11, topic:247937"]
IS cosleeping "very" dangerous? No.
CAN cosleeping be "very" dangerous? Yes.

The vast majority of infants who die in adult beds die from negligence, such as infants placed alone in an adult bed, infants napping in adult beds, rolling and getting entrapped between headboard and mattress, infants sleeping with drunk, exhausted, or medicated parents, infants sleeping on pillows, and infants sleeping with other siblings.

There are safety precautions to take while cosleeping, and parents who don't take those precautions are running the risk of cosleeping being very dangerous for their babies.

I suspect the baby's mother in the article was on medication, making her less aware of her infant. Tragic.

PHEMIE......What's up with the kids not realizing the baby was nearly suffocating?!? Some people.

[/quote]

You didn't mention infants dying while co-sleeping with parents that are just plain tired, and rolling over on their baby because they themselves naturally toss & turn, and the baby is so small that he or she can easily/naturally go under the parent ? You only mention deaths by everything else but this. I don't know what the percentage of these co-sleeping deaths are, but the fact remains that it does happen, the parents don't have to be medicated or drunk.


#38

[quote="sanctareparata, post:23, topic:247937"]
Who said instead?

DH curls up right next to me, and baby sleeps on the other side of me. I don't know too many moms who put the baby in the middle. Dads are less aware.

FWIW, DH loves cosleeping.

[/quote]

So if you are in the middle of your baby and husband then what is preventing your baby from falling off of the bed...............do you have something like a bedrail over there ?


#39

Alohalady,

Actually, having a guard rail on the side is one of the precautions for safe co-sleeping. :slight_smile:

Yes, infants die cosleeping. Also, infants die in cribs. Especially drop side cribs and the millions of faulty made in china cribs that are recalled every year because an infant died or was injured in them.

I have never full-time coslept but I have part-time coslept with both of mine (much more the second - I got sooo much more sleep and was so much more functional during the day by doing this). It is definitely not for everyone but if safety precautions are followed, it is not inherently dangerous and is a parental choice that has benefits for many. If parents are being safe (with crib or co-sleeping), I think their choices should be respected rather than judged.


#40

[quote="Lil_Cat, post:33, topic:247937"]
While I understand what you're you're saying (and appreciate the info!), I think the problem I have with the whole back vs. tummy sleeping is that it constantly changes. I wouldn't be surprised if when my grandkids are born that sleep experts recommend sleeping on their tummy and it comes full circle from when I was a baby.

So the way I see it, I'm the parent and I have to go with my gut based on conflicting information and then take responsibility for the outcome. DD is 13 months now, so its not even an issue anymore.

[/quote]

From what I understand (and I am not an expert...I just read a lot :)) for most babies, tummy sleeping is better in that it's more comforting for babies - on their backs they will startle a lot and have a harder time staying asleep. But, for those babies who are at higher risk for SIDS (outside of external risk factors), and there's no way of telling which babies those are right now, they need to be placed on their backs. So the medical advice is that ALL babies be placed on their backs even though for most it wouldn't be an issue. And once they can roll over on their own, then it doesn't matter because you never know what position you'll find them in. :shrug:


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