Newfrontiers church

Hi there

I am engaged in a discussion on another forum with a fervent member of the Newfrontiers church, who has just referred to Catholicism as the “harlot church”. I directed him to some tracts here regarding scriptural evidence for transubstantiation, which he seems to have completely disregarded.

I’ve read a little online about his church, but wonder if anyone knows what they are all about as I have also read some criticisms online of Newfrontiers? I would like to get my facts straight, as there are very few Christians on this particular forum and his comments are just making things worse.

Many thanks.

This is what I can find on them.

It seems to be a loose confederation of Christians started in the 1970’s who follow a man called Terry Virgo (terryvirgo.org/Publisher/Article.aspx?ID=269924). They seem to believe that the early Church was a set of individual churches and seem themselves the same way “number of local churches, each with its own identity, membership and elders, working together on a mission.” Of Paul they say “His original home-base church in Antioch came into existence, not through his ministry but spontaneously, through the witness of scattered believers, which he subsequently joined.” As Terry Virgo claims to be a Bible teacher, although from his writings I personally would doubt many aspects of this claim – not least his vast gaps of basic understanding of the Bible. He has subsequently retired from leadership, not handed the reins over to anyone and simply left the churches to go their own individual ways. Funnily enough he sees noting wrong in abandoning his followers.

They don’t acknowledge the Catholic Church and do not believe that Catholics are Christians (terryvirgo.org/Articles/230819/Terry_Virgo/Resources/Articles/Series/Interview_with_Mark_Driscoll.aspx). I know it is an interview but it is backed up by other articles on the website. Some of his associates are err less than Christian in the preaching e.g. Mark Driscoll.

One of their leaders also makes the following statement without backing it up with any evidence, it just seems that he believes more in himself than in any evidence of facts. For example: “Historically the early Reformers, who wrote their commentaries on the Scriptures, were correctly hostile to the Roman Catholic doctrine of apostolic succession with the concept of infallible authority usually associated with that claim.”

Sorry this is all I am able to offer right now as I found the site depressing and very sad. I think that you might get more helpful answers from some of our Evangelical CAF members who understand the Evangelical movements better.

Upon reflection, I suggest that you ask the MODs to move this into other religions as it may get seen by more Evangelicals.

Just an initial offering.

Just another group I plan to ignore…:rolleyes:

Thank you for taking the time to look into it, Avila123. Yes, the person who was arguing with me yesterday said that Catholics weren’t Christians!

I’ll try to respond to him more robustly, thanks again.

The question always comes down to one of authority. Keep following up and asking him where he was ordained or commissioned with authority to make such a pronouncement. Ask him how it is different than anyone else’s. He’ll probably first point to the Bible, but ask him where the Bible came from and how we got it. Who declared it a holy? Keep going back to his claim to have authority to declare what is and what is not hte Christian faith.

This kind of stuff is not all that uncommon among these “independent” or “non-denominational” types. They have no one in authority over them and if at any time they don’t like what the rest are doing, they just separate off further from them, but no one is really in charge except maybe their pastor or elders/deacons Even then it’s about as arbitrary as it can get. (At one time I served as a deacon in a local AoG and in retrospect it was a nightmare and we left because of it.)

When it comes to assertions that we Catholics are not Christians I would ask them to prove that, which they cannot do. They will routinely assert that some of our doctrines are contrary to the Bible, but that always proves wrong when you offer scripture in support of whatever they deny.

Are they likely to be convinced? No way to tell because it depends on the working of the Holy Spirit on that individual, but as you know, the evidence for our most holy faith is compelling. Ask people like Tim Staples, Scott and Kimberly Hahn, John Cardinal Newman and many of the folks who regularly post here in Apologetics.

Look over the articles on my blog (linked below) and you should find a number of things that will help equip you to handle this person.

You are in my prayers and may God bless you and your efforts.

Thank you sincerely for the helpful replies, it is much appreciated.

Yeah…That’s a pretty good apologetic guideline.

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