NFP befroe 1951?


#1

Did the church speak about spacing of children before NFP was sanctioned by the church in 1951?


#2

[quote=Jocelyn]Did the church speak about spacing of children before NFP was sanctioned by the church in 1951?
[/quote]

Jocelyn – Sorry I can’t answer your question. I add a question to your question. How and in what way did the Church address the subject of spacing children in 1951? I should know this but I do not.


#3

It was called Holy Abstinence and that is exactly what NFP is based on only post 1951 it has become more scientific!!

The message has always been the same.

All your questions answered here rtforum.org/lt/lt103.html don’t be put off by the heading and make your way to the paragraph that starts “The first time Rome spoke on the matter was as long ago as 1853…” which is 12 paragraphs down the document.


#4

[quote=Jocelyn]Did the church speak about spacing of children before NFP was sanctioned by the church in 1951?
[/quote]

My parents used the rhythm method in the 50’s and 60’s. They even had a circle guide. The days of the month were on the inside circle, then you moved the indicator to the first day of a woman’s menstral cycle and your fertile days appeared in a window on the upper circle.

Using this method, along with my mother’s “female problems”, they had eight pregnacies in 20 years. Only three of us survived.


#5

[quote=Fergal]It was called Holy Abstinence and that is exactly what NFP is based on only post 1951 it has become more scientific!!

The message has always been the same.

All your questions answered here rtforum.org/lt/lt103.html don’t be put off by the heading and make your way to the paragraph that starts “The first time Rome spoke on the matter was as long ago as 1853…” which is 12 paragraphs down the document.
[/quote]

Thanks Fergal! Great document. I’ve bookmarked it in my apologetics file.


#6

[quote=Jocelyn]Did the church speak about spacing of children before NFP was sanctioned by the church in 1951?
[/quote]

my mother, a Methodist at the time, received instruction in NFP (they called it rhythm back then and they did not have newer techniquest to measure fertility as accurately either) when she married my Catholic father in 1943. She had a little booklet, chart, and wheel to track her cycle. In the late 50s her CFM group studied a newer method, I believe the Billings method. she also breastfed all her children and that was considered to delay the return of fertility. They had a child every 3 years, the 7th and last pregnancy ended in miscarriage and emergency hysterectomy. My father also told my brothers that a Catholic husband who loves his wife gives her time after the baby is born to recover, and that the priest told him not to resume relations until at least 6 months after the baby was born. It was called periodic abstinence, just as know, but technology has given us a lot more help in our generation.


#7

And the average Joe on the street still thinks NFP is rythm, and that it has the same reliability. Sad and irritating both.


#8

[quote=Fergal]It was called Holy Abstinence and that is exactly what NFP is based on only post 1951 it has become more scientific!!

The message has always been the same.

All your questions answered here rtforum.org/lt/lt103.html don’t be put off by the heading and make your way to the paragraph that starts “The first time Rome spoke on the matter was as long ago as 1853…” which is 12 paragraphs down the document.
[/quote]

Great link.

The first time Rome spoke on the matter was as long ago as 1853, when the Sacred Penitentiary answered a dubium (a formal request for an official clarification) submitted by the Bishop of Amiens, France. He asked, “Should those spouses be reprehended who make use of marriage only on those days when (in the opinion of some doctors) conception is impossible?” The Vatican reply was, "After mature examination, we have decided that such spouses should not be disturbed [or disquieted], provided they do nothing that impedes generation"6


#9

[quote=manualman]And the average Joe on the street still thinks NFP is rythm, and that it has the same reliability. Sad and irritating both.
[/quote]

Thank you… i was just about to post this… www.ccli.org has some wonderful information… NFP is NOT the rhythm method!!! :mad:


#10

[quote=tamccrackine]Thank you… i was just about to post this… www.ccli.org has some wonderful information… NFP is NOT the rhythm method!!! :mad:
[/quote]

I think the point is both reflect the postion that one has recourse to the natural cycle to space births and it is not a recent invention of the Vatican.


#11

Before the 1940’s period abstinence and some form of rhythm was taught. My parents did this method. Mothers did breastfeed so it wasn’t as bad at it seems. The women who enjoy the joys of the flesh with only 2 children are promoted as having a better relationship with husbands than catholic women who are struggling with babies and finances.

It was somewhere before or around the1940’s that the movement to bottle feed takes over so babies have no spacing at all. Probably promoted as a way to take pressure off mothers. Many children were born 10 months apart. Many families had 5 children in 5 years. Women went to work during the World War II and with the death of husbands they continued to work.

In my particular family my sister used the rhythm method sucessfully. She had a good marriage and her six children were the only ones that had space between them. But you have to remember that families didn’t talk about these things openly. No one in the family knew what she was doing. It wasn’t till many years later that the question was even asked.(Playboy and pornography are marketed in the 1950’s)

The church never mentions rhythm. Probably thought it was a failure. I’m sure the otherside who wanted the church gone talked about the failures and told us all how useless rhythm was even though many girls who had regular cycles could have use this older method.

The baby boomers are coming of age.Population control literature is taught in social studies. They are told by the church that they can’t use the birth control pill or condoms yet not told what they can do to space children. Some nuns and priests are leaving. Men no longer fight for better wages as women are told the importance of a career.The few people in the church who are asking questions about rhythm are told not to mention it. The pill is marketed by doctors and the pharmaceutical company ($$$) at full throttle.(The drug culture has taken center stage).

In the 1970’s the more advanced NFP is mentioned but so much damaged has been done and the other side is aggressive in putting NFP down. Abortion is legalized. Any thoughts from others on this?


#12

[quote=Jocelyn]Did the church speak about spacing of children before NFP was sanctioned by the church in 1951?
[/quote]

As far as I know Catholics were using the rhythm method back in the day, which is just an ineffective form of NFP


#13

NFP is a totally effective way of spacing children… Checking temperature along with mucus and even cervix to check for fertilization is so reliable. NFP is 99% effective I believe. There is no comparison between the two methods.

Yet rhythm in 1950’s for those females who had regular 28 days cycles, some found it was usable. It was basic. They charted their monthly cycle and abstained so many days in the middle. My sister used nothing but rhythm. She never breastfed. She says she never used any form of contraception. She has six children. We were just learning more about the body and spacing children when everything seem to go crazy. We were left with nothing. That is why Vatican II was such a shock.


#14

rtforums is a terrible resource full of nonsense. They take ultraconservative and anti-intellectual positions on nearly all topics that Harrison and McCarthy touch, ranging from evolution ot feminism to monogenism to everything they perceive as modernism.

Just a look through the titles of their articles is better than reading “the Far Side”.

DID WOMAN EVOLVE FROM THE BEASTS?
A DEFENSE OF TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC DOCTRINE

Rev. Brian W. Harrison, O.S., M.A., S.T.D.
Associate Professor of Theology,

Pontifical Catholic University of Puerto Rico

Introduction

The purpose of this paper is to defend a doctrinal thesis which is quite simple, very clear, very classical, but now very unpopular—not to say openly scorned and derided. I will argue that the formation by God of the first woman, Eve, from the side of the sleeping, adult Adam had, by the year 1880, been proposed infallibly by the universal and ordinary Magisterium of the Catholic Church as literally and historically true; so that this must forever remain a doctrine to be held definitively (at least) by all the faithful. I would express the thesis in Latin as follows:

kolbecenter.org/harrison.eve.html

Yes father, Eve was literally formed from the side of Adam and that is infallible… Fr. have you ever heard of irrisio infidelium?


#15

I just hope that every family that is on these forums who are practicing NFP will take note. They will go the public forum and say yes NFP works.

If they have 5 children, the public will say well it must not have worked for you because you do not have two children.

When they try to say it is church teaching, the public will say where and when was that written and accuse them of being “too religious”

The public(especially the woman who loves her sex) will say it is not practical in today’s society. People have to work. People are too busy. Look at that famoly, they use it and have seven children.

When they try to help their neighbor learn the method, the other side will say “leave them alone”. The public will give 200 percent to silenced the NFP users. History Does Repeat Itself.


#16

according to woman in the family in my mom’s and MIL’s generation: you could always tell who the Catholics were in the 40s and 50s because they were most like to breastfeed, and this at a time when bottle feeding was pushed as being more modern, hygenic, better for baby and mom, lots of pressure of docs and hospitals for bottle feeding. She says it was widely believed breastfeeding helped space pregnancy, but it did not work for her or anyone she knew. She said Catholic churches had books, altough not classes on NFP, and her Catholic doctor explained it to her but there was nothing formal to get husbands to agree to it. some things never change. She also said the priest told her husband, after she nearly died after 4th baby in 4 years, he better get to confession if she showed up pregnant before last baby was at least a year old.


#17

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