Nice guys finish last belief

I want to know what the people on these forums think of this belief that girls aren’t attracted to nice guys. I have read on the internet that people say this is because of animal instincts, but why would God make people have to break His own rules to be able to get in a relationship?:confused:

*Hi there;

God gives us free will, what we do with that, is our choice. If you are a nice guy, the right girl will see it. My husband is a nice guy, but I dated a lot of bad men back in college until I met him. Perhaps, it helped me appreciate him more…I don’t know. I didn’t know how to ‘take’ him right away, but over time, I realized ‘‘yes, this is how I should be treated by a man.’’ Some girls date bad boys for the thrill, or because they grew up with a father figure who wasn’t the greatest, and so they don’t have a good role model to model a solid relationship on. Could be that the bad boy didn’t show his true colors right away. Could be a number of reasons, really.

Be true to who you really are, and the right girl will take notice. :)*

People on the internet who argue for this point define “nice guys” as “weak, unattractive, and unsuccessful” guys.

Yes it is biological for women to prefer men who have certain physical characteristics (height, athleticism, strength), to prefer men who are successful (whether it means leadership position, a good job, wealth and so on).

But this doesn’t mean that we want those men to be evil guys who like to torture animals for fun. We also want men with those traits to be kind and compassionate. Most of us would turn down an attractive and successful man if he were a sociopath.

Usually when people, especially people online, are talking about nice guys they are talking about guys who might be compassionate and kind, but also happen to be physically unattractive and professionally unsuccessful.

In the end, it is true, women don’t want those types of men. But many of us might still settle for them when we fail to get the attractive, strong, and successful kinds.

Do nice guys really finish last?

Perhaps when ppl talk about “nice guys” what they really mean is needy guys. They most certainly do finish last (if at all). (not to make an accusation, of course) :smiley:
I’ve never met a girl who was the least bit attracted to neediness.
Nor have I ever found anything the least bit attractive in a needy woman.
In terms of my own life, as a junior high boy I was idealistic, lonely, and incredibly boring. And believe me, nobody was interested!
As I matured and started gaining interests, goals and dreams in life and started actively working for them (and quite frankly when I stopped worrying about finding a date altogether) that other ppl started coming into life and relationships came (and went, but that’s a whole nother story lol), A lot of men experience the same thing. When they are so bent on trying to find a woman nothing comes up. Its only when they stop thinking about it and live life to the fullest that Mrs. Right (at least in two cases) arrives on the scene and then a happily ever after follows.

Also, not being on a holy grail search for Mrs. Right also brings an incredible amount of joy. Your happiness doesn’t depend on that-which-you-have-not and you can really cash in on all the great things that were there all along (the joy of school, hobbies and work)

So to be frank I’d advise you not to worry so much about nice guys or mean guys (or any guys for that matter) finishing last or first. Don’t even worry about the race. Worry about YOU :slight_smile:

The “nice guys finish last” came from Prof John Nash’s proposal that to always keep the odds in your favor, one should always be first to betray any agreement. Many laws and programs have been instituted to support that concept.

God did not make such a notion any part of the higher spirit, but specifically of what rules the lower spirit (Satanism).

As a part of the incentive for this scheme to bring great wealth to the nation, younger girls are inspired to be delighted by the rebellious, sneaky, and self interested guy.

It is what they called a “paradigm” shift in morality and is being supported throughout the ethos of the governance.

It is NOT natural, but man-made.

That’s an interesting take on it, I didn’t know it originally came from game theory.
What are some examples of laws and programs instituted on the basis of this concept?

I don’t see how inspiring young girls to be attracted to sneaky and self interested guys would help nations to be wealthy though.

Since the success of individuals in society doesn’t seem to depend on being the first to break an agreement. Maybe if an agreement is going to be broken, better to be the one to break it. But, in daily lives of getting an education and a job this doesn’t seem to apply.

Christ centered women want Christ centered men.

Be like Jesus.

Whatevergirl is right, as she is usually.

I’d like to consider myself one of the “nice” guys (just don’t interrupt my reading…grr…) and I’ve had very good “luck” with women, just haven’t met Miss right yet.

Be good to yourself, never apologize for being a gentlemen, and keep it positive.

Oh yeah, pray too.

I’ve been told that I’m a nice guy. I haven’t had any luck with having a girlfriend. It’s frustrating because the young women whom I have an interest in and with whom I can talk have no romantic feelings for me, even though they say I’m great, funny, that I “rock,” and so on.

I notice that some young women, online or in person, contact me and become strongly flirtatious in their manner. However, as suddenly as their “interest” comes, it goes, and I never hear from them again. They strike me as very flighty. I’ve become quite wary of young women who come off strong during the first several days of knowing them, and also of women who recently have broken up with boyfriends.

I don’t think its just this nation or time that invites young women to look to the “bad” or more daring. I think its just lately that women are allowed to make the choice to pursue such a man.

I think even Jane Austen characters wanted the more daring men. The “bad boys” of the 1700’s. The instinct to find a man who can provide has to do with the guy’s toughness. And through the ages not alot of impact was put into woman’s happiness as this ideal was embedded into the psyce.

I’m a good girl in search of a good guy :smiley:

For me personal preference can get in the way…becuase my family…every member…from grandpa to my 3yo cousin’s boy is thin/healthy weight, I don’t find overweight people attractive. I have my grandma’s brown eyes, but 90% of my family has blue eyes…and I find blue…or lighter colors… more attractive. I also tend to fall for guys in some kind of IT field. So what women finds attractive IS part of their environment. But I think environmental factors can only really feed innate instincts in women.

I think girls are attracted to beautiful guys, whether its their body, their soul, or both.

WOW! I thought it came from a song…:smiley:

Wow, when I first read that question, my mind immediately went into overload thinking of all of the programs associated with that game since circa 1945.

The first to come to mind was the change in the law that forbade a wife from testifying against her husband. This law was originally provide to sanctify marriage. But then got changed to not only allow her to testify against him, but in some cases made her liable if she didn’t.

The huge drive to breakup families witnessed during the 1970’s had very many laws and psychological programs behind it. On the main schedule page on TV Guide (the page everyone leaves open on the coffee table) at the bottom in bold print, for 10 years, every week would be found the word “DIVORCE” with an attorneys name and very low incentive price following.

In most cases it costs almost nothing to sue someone and tens of thousands for them to defend themselves. This supports (financially) the legal system as well as other associated programs.

Currently and since, the number of laws is provided just to allow for almost everything to be illegal. Whoever uses a law first (necessarily against someone else) is rewarded in almost every case unless under an older judge or older formed city.

People living individually, and especially filing law suits and divorces against each other is seriously big business. It also keeps people weak as individuals and dependent on the government (government getting ever bigger until it owns all things).

Wealth of the nation is very different from wealth of the individuals. By having everyone in conflict with everyone else, many things occur to the benefit of the governance even though against the people.

With each transaction, the government (through taxes) gains a profit. But also by everyone having to re-buy houses, cars, furniture and so on, it supports the manufacturing of these things. As things are being replaced, the opportunity to upgrade them into a new version more easily controlled by the state (PCs for example, cars, and raw materials).

The government gains wealth by the people strongly desiring. It profits the economy for people to hate each other, destroy property, compete for better lawyers, better medicines to fight off the new diseases and so on.

Passive people make for a poor economy. Insecure, terrorized, unsatisfied, hateful people make things move - economy.

All of that means that people being self interested and in conflict makes for a $100 trillion economy instead of a $10 billion economy.

One of the very many ways to get people to be self-interested is to train them to be by instinctive rewards for being devious and clever, ergo the incentive for young women to basically sell themselves as reward for the more sneaky and clever boy.

Movies and general media, along with preachers in many churches and mothers all provided the young girl with her delight in seeing the boy cleverly out fox someone else. “Survival of the fittest” was the call even though “Survival of the fitted” is the reality.

It is a very Jewish/Secular method of governing the lower class and keeping them in their Gehenna (trash ben).

It is all a HUGE intertwined story of how to cause socialism and wealth. It is the very same proposal that Jesus was given up on that mountain. Jesus chose differently than the US Senate.

this is the way I put it:

If a girl chooses a bad boy over a nice guy, that girl frankly does not deserve the nice guy.

nice guys do finish last for some girls, but for real women, nice guys always finish first.

.

The way to win the game is to stop letting the girl pick you.

“Get a life before a wife”.

A “MAN” has a plan. He lives his life with or without a woman, but if she feels the desire to help him, then he must consider of what help she will actually be.

If he isn’t in charge with a plan in action already, there is no life and there is no marriage because there is no bond to living toward any dream.

Equality means everyone is one their own. Someone must be the arbiter, not both.

“Get a life before a wife”. And don’t let her take it from you with teasings of pleasure and fun.

SHE will give you far more respect for being that way, than anything she gave to the clever sneaky boy.

Originally Posted by James S Saint:

All of that means that people being self interested and in conflict makes for a $100 trillion economy instead of a $10 billion economy.

and 100 million mental cases instead of 10.

Small is beautiful.

A couple of more or less loose points.

  1. A good girl chooses a good guy. If a woman chooses to pursue the bad guys, then something’s wrong with her picker, possibly being part of a larger problem. You would do well to look at her with compassion and say a prayer or two for her, but you shouldn’t take pity on yourself for not succeeding with her. Even actually picking you instead probably wouldn’t solve her problems.

  2. People change. By sticking with men who’ve changed, good women display devotion and loyalty, traits which we admire and seek. We don’t really know how they met up, how he treated her before, or what else he does than abuse that makes her want to stick with him.

  3. Men have the same problem. Part of it is falling for the girls who fall for the bad guys.

  4. “Why did she choose him? I’m so much a better person in every regard!” is not the way we’re supposed to think about ourselves. It doesn’t make us more compassionate, it does make us more self-centred and ultimately it produces bitterness and misogyny. Might well turn one into an abuser himself.

  5. Stockholm syndrome and emotional manipulation (including threats of what he’ll do to himself or others if he’s dumped).

Don’t get bitter, don’t get needy, do have a normal life, build a relationship with God, learn to deal with people, build a basis for your future family. After all, it’s a wife you’re looking for, not a girlfriend. “Nice” men don’t get much in terms of girlfriends, but they do get wives and happy marriages in the end.

As for how things change over time, yes, time works for the “nice” guys’ benefit. I understand the feelings of being cheated, depraved and somehow diminished - someone else got it first and the guy whose “fault” was being “nice” gets it only later, i.e. after the woman in question understood her mistakes, or simply when she was done partying. Those feelings aren’t alien to me. I certainly don’t want to be a parking lot after a wild youth spent with the wrong guys. It’s hard to get over thinking this way. I have to make conscious effort even as I’m typing now. If you see a woman genuinely wisening up or genuinely regretting some wrong choices from the past (“let’s wait for the right guy but have fun with all the wrong ones in the meantime”), then it’s Christian to forgive and it’s only reasonable to let go of it and realise she’s a changed person. If she’s happy she’s had all the fun with the wrong guys but now wants to settle (and a different kind of man is good for settling with), then I would skip.

I don’t think nice guys finish last. I think weak victim poor me guys finish last. Yes, they may be nice, but they maybe aren’t “guys” Real men Are knights for Christ and for thier women.
I am a nice guy and I have a beautiful wife and soon to be three wonderful girls. I finished first. Why, because I am confident, sincere in my faith and I am wise when choosing a mate, a house etc…
I have no interest in “turning some woman’s life around” “saving someone” or having someone “save me” in the dating sense. Charity is one thing, finding a woman to make a family with is quite another.
this enabled me to find a wonderful strong, great wife. Hopefully she feels the same.
But I did date my share of damsels in distress, single moms, victims of life. This never workded out and by the time I figured me out it seemed as if all the other girls were “damaged” But I was able to find a great girl at work and we went to Mass together for 6 months before we ever went on a date.

I think a lot of girls choose guys who treat them poorly for the same reason so many of us choose sin - because we don’t think we deserve better. Also, many girls have problems that they are trying to work out by dating a particular type of person. They might see a “nice” guy as not a challenge and they are looking for the challenge of a troubled guy because of some issue they had when they were younger OR again, because they feel they do not deserve to be treated nicely without drama. It is easy to say girls only want good looking guys…but I have seen some real trolls who mistreat girls and get away with treating them poorly only to have the girls coming back for more and more. I do not really understand the trend of dating “bad boys.” My husband is the definition of a “nice guy”…he may have even had the title “nerd” at some points :wink:
None the less, I could not ask for a better husband, he is truly a safe place to land in this harsh world. He is very handsome to boot. He has said many times that he was afraid he would never find a wife because he does not have a type A personality and he might get overlooked or have to settle for a girl that did not treat him so great. I think this is a common fear for the less aggressive young men. But anyways, my husband was happily married by 24 :slight_smile:

Wow. I love when men try to explain women’s motives and foist male attitudes on women.

Some interesting language here from you guys. Damaged? :eek: Damsels in distress?

Nice judgment.

For the record, I know VERY few young girls whose attitude is "let’s go out and parteeeee and use guys and be sluts for years then we’ll find some schmuck who will be our “parking lot” after we are finished having fun.

That’s complete projection. (Usually you’re better than that, Chevalier.)

More often it’s guys who sow their wild oats and then want the virgin and nice girl to have the family with. There’s the girl you have fun with and then the girl you marry.

Women don’t really think like that.

Unless she is really psycho, most women don’t look at a man and say “There’s a real SOB. I think I want to give him my body and let him use me for years and then throw me away like garbage. Woo hoo!”

Usually the SOBs are very manipulative and start off making that woman feel more beautiful and cherished than she has ever felt in her life. They’re con artists and are really good at perceiving what she wants to hear and telling her exactly that. Like a gypsy fortune teller, they’re often very good at picking up subtle clues and tailoring their lies to fit the woman.

She falls hard for it. She’s never felt so happy. It’s a whirlwind till it hits the wall of reality. Then the up and down spiral of Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde starts. A good cop/bad cop rolled into one. He plays with her like a cat and a mouse as long as she amuses him. Why does she put up with it? The loyalty mentioned by another poster. The need to not be a “slut” and not be the kind of girl that goes from one guy to another. The memory of how good he used to seem. Surely that man is still in there somewhere and if she waits long enough he’ll come back!

Which isn’t really the point here, but just understood my wise mother once commented on boys sowing their wild oats and girls sowing their stupid oats.

And ask yourself if you ever have a daughter someday and someone plays her like a fiddle, do you want some man on a message board referring to her as “damaged?”

You all think you deserve perfect? Gosh, I hope you’re perfect.

But here’s some clues for some nice guys. I’ll be blunt. None of this is addressed to any specific guy… just observations over the years about people I see dating or trying to date:

Because being “nice” isn’t enough. Or thinking you’re nice when you’re really not isn’t enough. Just because you’ve never slapped a woman or raped someone or paid a girlfriend to kill your child doesn’t mean you might not have attitudes and behaviors that can be perceived as mean or passive aggressive or arrogant.

I’ll put my rules in the next post. This is getting long.

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