Nicene and Apostles' Creed


#1
  1. Which churches outside the Catholic Church recite or incorporate the “Nicene Creed” and the “Apostles’ Creed” in their churches?

  2. What is the explanation for Protestants using these creeds when they contain the phrases “I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church” (Nicene) and “I believe in the/a holy catholic Church, the communion of saints…” (Apostles’)?


#2

[quote=Eden]1) Which churches outside the Catholic Church recite or incorporate the “Nicene Creed” and the “Apostles’ Creed” in their churches?
[/quote]

i know that the Eastern Orthodox and Anglicans/Episcopalians do. The Eastern Orthodox say the Nicene creed, minus the filioque, at every single Divine Liturgy.

[quote=Eden]2) What is the explanation for Protestants using these creeds when they contain the phrases “I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church” (Nicene) and “I believe in the/a holy catholic Church, the communion of saints…” (Apostles’)?
[/quote]

I’m not too certain about this, but I think it is because they believe they never left the One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.


#3

Here is a link from christianforums.com it is a forum that has every type of Christian, Catholic, Orthodox, many protestant denominations, etc. It uses the Nicene Creed in its statment of beliefes of how it defines a “Christian”.

If you scroll down to section 6.3 they explain “catholic” and stuff like that as a protestant would see it (but not as a Catholic would, though other than that its fine). I think that it is a good way to define the basic principals, even if they dont accept parts of the true meaning, like the word “catholic”.

Also though there are a sizeable amount of denominations who “use” it, though they work around it all the time and downplay certain parts.


#4

Thanks! I pasted the site’s “Nicene Creed” here:

6.3 The Nicene Creed (with scriptural references as it is based on the Bible)

We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16: 15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4: 5; Acts 2: 38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life in the age to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)

AMEN. (Psalm 106: 48)

*The word “catholic” (literally, “universal”) refers to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ and not necessarily or exclusively to any particular visible denomination or institution.

**This can be interpreted to mean that baptism is a matter of obedience and not a requirement for salvation or a regenerating ordinance.


In “Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth”, it defines the four marks of the true Church: one, holy, catholic and apostolic. How do other churches define one, holy and apostolic? (I left out “catholic” because the disclaimer from the Christian forums spoke to that.)

catholic.com/library/pillar.asp


#5

The Oriental Orthodox Churches recite the Creed…minus the filoque phrase.

God Bless,
Elizabeth


#6

Actually, not only does my Church recite it, but our 20th Pope, St. Athanasius is the author of it. :slight_smile:
God Bless,
Elizabeth


#7

Yes, among my crowd, “Catholic” and “baptism for the remission of sins” is redefined contrary to the historic use of the terms. That’s the wobblyness of human language, and lawyers make a fortune from it.

Theologians, like houseflies, can get around anything.

(My crowd isn’t the only one with theologians in it, however.)


#8

[quote=Eden]1) Which churches outside the Catholic Church recite or incorporate the “Nicene Creed” and the “Apostles’ Creed” in their churches?

  1. What is the explanation for Protestants using these creeds when they contain the phrases “I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church” (Nicene) and “I believe in the/a holy catholic Church, the communion of saints…” (Apostles’)?
    [/quote]

I can tell you with certainty that up to three years ago the United Methodist church recited (en mass) the Apostle’s Creed at the end of their Sunday Service. I did ask several of them about the phrase you mentioned. The answer was," Well we always have done it. It sounds good to me." Thats it.No problem.


#9

[quote=Coptic]Actually, not only does my Church recite it, but our 20th Pope, St. Athanasius is the author of it. :slight_smile:
God Bless,
Elizabeth
[/quote]

Thanks Elizabeth! I’m very interested in learning more about the common ground between the Coptic, Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches. The beautiful pictures of Mary’s apparitions in Egypt above a Coptic Church are incredible and I’ve given a few friends of mine the link. I was unclear as to how, specifically the Protestants interpret the meaning of the Creeds. What do “apostolic” and “the communion of saints” mean to them? I would assume “saint” has a different meaning.


#10

Lutherans do too. My friend (who is Lutheran) showed me a paper from one of their services and it had the Apostle’s Creed on it. The Anglicans/Episcopalians also use the Apostle’s Creed. The word “catholic” (note the lower case in the creeds) is used to mean “universal”…the meaning of the word. It’s kind of funny, though, because obviously Protestants DONT believe in one universal church because they have over 33,000 different churches.


#11

I once asked some Baptists on a Forum what exactly they disagreed with in the Creed. The only thing they mentioned was the “one baptism for the remission of sins” because to them Baptism is purely symbolic.

God Bless,
Elizabeth


#12

[quote=Coptic]I once asked some Baptists on a Forum what exactly they disagreed with in the Creed. The only thing they mentioned was the “one baptism for the remission of sins” because to them Baptism is purely symbolic.

God Bless,
Elizabeth
[/quote]

They should probably change the name of their religion then, lol.


#13

[quote=Rand Al’Thor]They should probably change the name of their religion then, lol.
[/quote]

LOL, ya a little ironic huh? :rolleyes:


#14

What about the “communion of saints” in the Apostles’ Creed? I was looking at the website for a “Reformed” Church and it says:

“This creed is called the Apostles’ Creed, not because it was a production of the apostles themselves, but because it contains a brief summary of their teachings. It sets forth their doctrine, as has been well said, “in sublime simplicity, in unsurpassable brevity, in beautiful order, and with liturgical solemnity.” In its present form it is of no later date than the fourth century. More than any other creed of Christendom, it may justly be called an ecumenical symbol of faith.”

Then you get down to:

“IX - I believe a holy catholic Church, the communion of saints”

:confused:


#15

I just found this article on Catholic Answers:

catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9311def.asp

**That “Catholic” very early acquired its modern sense of denoting a particular group of churches united in a single, visible communion is important for how we read the writings of the Church Fathers and how we read early creeds. Protestants accept the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicene Creed, which make reference to the Catholic Church. The Apostles’ Creed states, “I believe . . . in the Holy Catholic Church”; the Nicene creed states, “I believe . . . in One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.” Both of these statements were written after “Catholic” had acquired its current meaning.
**


#16

[quote=Rand Al’Thor] The word “catholic” (note the lower case in the creeds) is used to mean “universal”…the meaning of the word. It’s kind of funny, though, because obviously Protestants DONT believe in one universal church because they have over 33,000 different churches.
[/quote]

The term “catholic” with a little “c” is correct, the only big “C” belongs on the word “Church” because thats all there is a singular institution that is already universal (catholic).

And as Eden said, the terms Catholic (big C) and even “Roman Catholic” are not the official title, they are more to help sift through the confusion caused by so many people going around with their own definitions of “catholic” and “church”. The title of the church that Jesus founded (esp in Matt16:18) is
"The Church",
plain and simple.

As for the “communion of saints” stuff, I have asked prots to define “saint” and they point to all those verses that make a saint out to be anyone who is a Christian…these are two of the many references:

Rom1:7-7 To all God’s beloved in Rome, who are called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Cor1:2- 2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

That is true on a grand scale for all who are Christians, but there are also those people who lived extraordinary lives who officially take on the title “saint”, which most prots reject outright.

Other than that you can keep looking on various prot sites, and as you will notice though they claim to accept it, they dance around some of the issues and put their personal spin on things.


#17

[quote=Eden]I just found this article on Catholic Answers:

catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9311def.asp

That “Catholic” very early acquired its modern sense of denoting a particular group of churches united in a single, visible communion is important for how we read the writings of the Church Fathers and how we read early creeds. Protestants accept the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicene Creed, which make reference to the Catholic Church. The Apostles’ Creed states, “I believe . . . in the Holy Catholic Church”; the Nicene creed states, “I believe . . . in One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.” Both of these statements were written after “Catholic” had acquired its current meaning.

[/quote]

Do all Protestans really accept either Creed??? I am a little confused on what this line means:

**

Protestants accept the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicene Creed, which make reference to the Catholic Church.

Does anyone have some thoughts??? Thanks and God Bless.**


#18

Methodists still use the Apostles Creed. The only difference has been noted: catholic instead of Catholic. I was taught that the reference is to the fact that there are believing & practicing Christians in all Christian churches–Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox.
The communion of saints is justwhat it says: the communion of saints. I have to admit that I have heard people try to dodge out of the obvious fact that all the saints–those in Heaven, & believers on earth–are united in & by prayer…but not that often.
A friend asked me once, shortly after her mother died, if I thought she was crazy to talk to her mom & think that she was listening. I said,yes.
It seems pretty obvious to me that if we accept the creed, that we are to understand from it, that yes, our loved ones in Heaven are listening & watching, & why on earth wouldn’t they be praying for us?


#19

Wow, if a majority of Protestants who does use the word catholic in the creed, they are Catholic and Protestantism never existed. Perhaps, the whole Protestant Reformation is all a hoax and it’s one big Christian Catholic and Apostolic Church. But then again, the word catholic is not capitalized. Oh, well, there’s goes my hope that Christianity will be united. :crying:

I am joking, if you are offended, I apologize.


#20

I think sometimes there is a confusion as to what a Saint is… Some incorrectly assume that a Saint is something that comes about by canonization.

A Saint is simply one who is in heaven. The Catholic Church by way of canonization does not make a person a Saint but simply discerns whether or not one has been saved. One day hopefully we will all be saints.

So yes, of course most Protestants believe in Saints, likewise those that are saved and those believers here on Earth are part of the Body of Christ. Being such we are in communion with each other in Heaven and here on Earth. So most Protestants believe in the communion of Saints.

Now, some Protestant Biblical writters do something that I feel is a bit uneathical in their translations. When the word for Saint is used in such a way that it supports Catholic theology they will translate it as ‘holy one’ so as to try and say that there is a difference when in truth none exists.

Furthermore, as noted there is a difference between catholic and Catholic. One must realize that Protestants do believe in a universal church of all believers - where they differ is that most Protestants believe that the Church is invisible where as Orthodox, Catholics, and a few others believe that the Church is a visible entity with Apostolic Succession being that Earthly visible presence.


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