Look up the Athanasian creed. It is a wonderful statement of the trinity.
That’s an understatement. I literally just asked a question, not regarding the Nicene Creed, how Jesus could be conceived by the Holy Spirit with my understanding of the filioque. No offence, but you shouldn’t be answering questions if it annoys you that much.
It’s the Nicene Creed NOT the Apostles" Creed.
Because with regard to His Incarnation on Earth - He was.
Recall - Jesus existed with His Father in Heaven BEFORE being sent to Earth in the form of a babe
Well @jonkoegler if that’s the case in your mind - your perception, then why don’t you simply cite your references, with links, on “your understanding” of the filioque clause. If you say the filioque clause doesn’t come from the Nicene Creed , then please do tell us where it does come from . . . Particularly considering that the title of this thread has now been changed from Apostle’s Creed and the Filioque to Nicene Creed and the Filioque ?
You have to distinguish between his conception which took place in time and his begetting which took place before time began.
The Lord Jesus Christ has two natures…
Fully Divine, part of the God Head(Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) AND
Fully Human. This was the fitting way that he Saved us. This is the bridge between us and the Father. He became one of us(but a perfect us) to save us… This is also why we have many intercessors in our life, but there is only one intercessor between us and the Father…
I think Jesus’ own words do not support your claim. He doesn’t claim that BEFORE becoming a human being he existed with his Father.
He doesn’t say before Abraham ever was, I was.
He explicitly states: “Before Abraham ever was I AM” (John 8:58).
Eternity is not “before” the time stream of our existence, it is unconstrained by time.
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the word of life: For the life was manifested; and we have seen and do bear witness, and declare unto you the life eternal, which was with the Father, and hath appeared to us:
He does… “I came from the Father and have come into the world; again, I am leaving the world and return ing to the Father.”
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father .
Hello! I believe this was both summed and concluded at the Council of Florence, which stated
“The Latin Church recognizes but one principle, one cause of the Holy Spirit, namely, the Father. It is from the Father that the Son holds his place in the ‘Procession’ of the Holy Ghost. It is in this sense that the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father, but He proceeds also from the Son.” Bishop and theologian Giovanni di Ragusa furthered the filioque "did not admit two “principia” in the Trinity, but only one, the productive power of the Father and the Son, and that the Holy Ghost proceeds also from the Son. They admitted, therefore, two hypostases, one action, one productive power, and one product due to the substance and the hypostases of the Father and the Son.
And as a matter of history, this officially settled the matter for both the Catholic AND Orthodox churches, and for a very short period there was full unity again in Christendom of a sort. However, the scheming Russian princes of Muscovy and treacherous anti-Latin faction of Greeks within Constantinople resisted unity…and even preferred to be ruled (politically and religiously) over by the mohammedan turk as opposed to being aligned with/accepting help from the Pope.
By their fruits shall they be known…
Of course he says the latter, but it appears you haven’t been taught the nuance there; in Hebrew/Aramaic the sentence would sound like “Before Abraham was YHWH”…it takes on an entirely different meaning than what you are writing in English. It was Jesus absolutely equating his immortality/preexistence, which He repeated 3 times (or “thrice” even) in Revelation saying He was the Alpha and Omega…the beginning and the end; a title only reserved for God.
Jesus’ human body is not the sum of His existence, a belief always held by the early church and codified in our Catechism 444 “Jesus calls himself the “only Son of God”, and by this title affirms his eternal pre-existence”.
Peace to you.
During Inter-Religous Dialogue between some Orthodox and Catholic -
it appears that some of the Filioque problem - was linguistical in origin
We have Latin… and… Greek (yes?) … and potential mis-understood transational nuances.
The Father is I believe - considered as a prime source of His Spirit
- and His Spirit can therefore proceed from His Word - is offered…
Amazing … when one considers the Huge Split over one word…
and compares it to a Legion of seeming far greater Apostasy Today (according to some)
It’s not as simple as that; the church was still singular/united for 2 hundred years after the filioque was adopted in the Latin liturgy of the Frankish kingdoms (and 50 years after Rome added it). It was just one of those things theologians on both sides argued about continuously (since the time of the early councils, evidenced by the writings of Cyril of Alexandria in the 5th century…who was “pro-filioque”). But it didn’t lead to a schism. The reality is the schism was caused by the authority of Rome and the Papal envoy thinking he was a mini-pope vs the many wannabe “mini-popes” of the East. If you read the writ of excommunication leveled at the Patriarch of Constantinople, it goes into detail on all the heresies he and his church were guilty of, but the filioque didn’t figure into any of it.
I knew it’s not …
However my point still stands…
The Catholic Church is experiencing a far far larger broader split this past half-century
due to a Legion of virtual Satanic attacks - coming from within - including within its Hierarchy
That’s from the ESV translation, which was published by Crossways. Interesting choice of translation to use…
The Holy Spirit is a Divine Person, not an “it”. He is co-eternal with the Father and the Son.
Otherwise, nice post.
Do you have a link for that?
A human being is a human person. The Son of God is one Divine Person with two natures, Divine and human, in the unity of His Divine Person. He assumed human nature in the chaste and immaculate womb of Our Lady.
Yes. But we cannot surrender a principle in the hope that this will help overcome some other difficulty which we have decided is more pressing.