'No compulsion in religiion' is not true in islam

As we can see that the ‘no compulsion in religion’ is just so the ‘peaceful’ ones can practice taqiyya/kithman with ease. There is indeed compulsion in religion.

some examples that disprove the claim of 'no compulsion in religion:
Bulgaria:Entire Villages Being Forced to Convert to Radical Islam

There is compulsion in religion

“There is no compulsion in religion” – is permitted not only because their Infidel audience has no idea either about what is said relevantly elsewhere, in hundreds of places, in the Qur’an and Hadith, and not only because they are unaware of the doctrine of abrogation or “naskh,” but because they are also unaware of the precise meaning that is given to that phrase “there is no compulsion in religion” by Muslim jurisconsults. If they did look into it, they would find that the “obvious” meaning of the words – that is, the meaning that we Infidels choose to endow that phrase with – is not what Muslim scholars mean at all. They mean that in the end one cannot force deep belief on people, though one can force them to comply outwardly, even on pain of death. And that is what Islam is in the business of doing: forcing outward compliance, on pain of punishment that may well include, has often included, death.

…That is the observable behavior of Muslims over 1350 years. What have Muslims done, when they have conquered, by force or otherwise, non-Muslim lands and peoples? They offer three possibilities: death, conversion, and, at least to those who can be classified as ahl al-kitab or “people of the book,” permanent status as dhimmis, with a host of political, economic, and social disabilities which together added up to lives of humiliation, degradation, and physical insecurity, at times relieved – but only at times – by the occasional mollitude of a particular Muslim ruler. A slim reed on which to base one’s happiness. And so, over time, many non-Muslims, in order to avoid this condition of degradation, humiliation, and physical insecurity, converted to Islam.

forced conversion surahs and hadiths

forced conversion surahs and hadiths

koran surahs 9: 29, 5, 12 and 2:193
hadiths: Muslim 1:33 and 19:4294, Bukhari 8:387, 53:392, 2:24, 59:643 and Ibn Ishaq 959 to name a few hadiths.

The Qur’an:
Sura (9:29) - “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Suras 9 and 5 are the last “revelations” that Muhammad handed down.

Sura (9:5) “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them…” Prayer and charity are among the Five Pillars of Islam, as salat and zakat.

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith
Hadith 6.80 Narrated byAbu Huraira

The Verse: “You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind,” means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam. :eek:

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith
Hadith 9.77 Narrated byAbu Huraira
While we were in the mosque, Allah’s Apostle came out to us and said, “Let us proceed to the Jews.”

So we went along with him till we reached Bait-al-Midras (a place where the Torah used to be recited and all the Jews of the town used to gather).

The Prophet stood up and addressed them, “**O Assembly of Jews! Embrace Islam and you will be safe!” **

The Jews replied, “O Aba-l-Qasim! You have conveyed Allah’s message to us.”

The Prophet said, “That is what I want (from you).”

He repeated his first statement for the second time, and they said, “You have conveyed Allah’s message, O Aba-l-Qasim.”

Then he said it for the third time and added, “You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to exile you from this land, so whoever among you owns some property, can sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle.” (See Hadith No. 392, Vol. 4) :eek:

Ahhhh, I can feel the love, peace and no compulsion… :thumbsup:

from the hadiths:

Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: “I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah…”

Muslim (19:4294) - “When you meet your enemies who are polytheists [Christians…], invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them … If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them”

(Ironic, they call us the polytheists when they worship - the koran, mohammed, a black rock and then… finally… allah!)

I was just reading about this topic on islam-qa.com and find it fitting to post here along with the link for reference. This site is NOT anti-islam but an authentic one.

Topic:

There is no compulsion to accept Islam

Some friends say that whoever does not enter Islam, that is his choice and he should not be forced to become Muslim, quoting as evidence the verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So, will you (O Muhammad) then compel mankind, until they become believers”
[Yoonus 10:99]

“There is no compulsion in religion”
[al-Baqarah 2:256]

What is your opinion concerning that?.

Praise be to Allaah.

The scholars explained that these two verses, and other similar verses, have to do with those from whom the jizyah may be taken, such as Jews, Christians and Magians (Zoroastrians).

They are not to be forced, rather they are to be given the choice between becoming Muslim or paying the jizyah.

Other scholars said that this applied in the beginning, but was subsequently abrogated by Allaah’s command to fight and wage jihad.

So whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, until they either enter Islam or pay the jizyah if they are among the people who may pay jizyah.

The kuffaar should be compelled to enter Islam if they are not people from whom the jizyah may be taken, because that will lead to their happiness and salvation in this world and in the Hereafter.

Obliging a person to adhere to the truth in which is guidance and happiness is better for him than falsehood. Just as a person may be forced to do the duty that he owes to other people even if that is by means of imprisonment or beating, so forcing the kaafirs to believe in Allaah alone and enter into the religion of Islam is more important and more essential, because this will lead to their happiness in this world and in the Hereafter.

This applies unless they are People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians, or Magians, because Islam says that these three groups may be given the choice: they may enter Islam or they may pay the jizyah and feel themselves subdued.

Some of the scholars are of the view that others may also be given the choice between Islam and jizyah, but the most correct view is that no others should be given this choice, rather these three groups are the only ones who may be given the choice, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fought the kuffaar in the Arabian Peninsula and he only accepted their becoming Muslim. And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

He did not say, “if they pay the jizyah”. The Jews, Christians and Magians are to be asked to enter Islam; if they refuse then they should be asked to pay the jizyah. If they refuse to pay the jizyah then the Muslims must fight them if they are able to do so. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

[al-Tawbah 9:29]

And it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) accepted the jizyah from the Magians, but it was not proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) accepted the jizyah from anyone except the three groups mentioned above.

The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]”

[al-Anfaal 8:39]

“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).

These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.

And Allaah is the Source of strength.

Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat li’l-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/219

islam-qa.com/en/ref/34770

Now, what I posted above reminds me of the Godfather part II - where the mafia was under control of the neighborhoods and “took protection” money from store owners otherwise the mafia could NOT guarantee their safety.

From ‘The Third Jihad’ DVD:

Omar Bakri Muhammad, Former leader Al-Muhajiroun
’Jihad is a foreign policy to expand the islamic authority all over the world.’

Abu Jahya al-Libi, Al Qaeda leader
’According to our belief, the whole world must be under the rule of islam without exception, even a single grain of soil.’

Yousef Khattab, supporter
-‘islam will dominate, this is what it will be.’
-‘We want to see sharia here and it will be. The flag of , “there is no god other than allah, muhammed is the messenger of god”, will be (god willing) on the White House, if thats where we choose it to be. It just takes time, the American people are waking up now.’
-‘There is no compulsion in islam, that means, we cannot force it on you, but we will force islamic (sharia), god willing.’

Abu Mujahid, spokesperson islamic Thinkers Society (ITS)
‘allah does say that the whole world will eventually be under his rule. The rule will come down to where everyone obeys the laws of god (sharia), as simple as that.’

(my comment: all these guys have the same goals as Al Qaeda)

Now here is the good news:

Islam: fastest dying religion I have a link to the transcript to this video, but it is all in Arabic.

Does the Qur’an say it, or not?

It does (2:256). Therefore it is true.

Once again you quote the weaker, Meccan surahs. The deeds override what those weaker surahs contain and worldwide we are seeing a very, real compulsion in religion when it comes to islam.

You should do the research yourself to find out if this is true. You know how to do research and you are in a free land that won’t do anything to you if you do so.

This is in the koran too:

Qur’an 9:33 “He has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the Religion of Truth (Islam) to make it superior over all religions, even though the disbelievers detest (it).”

Qur’an 5:51 "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other."
Ishaq:245 "The Apostle used to say, ‘Their religion will never march with ours.’"
Bukhari:V4B52N288 “Expel disbelievers from the Arabian Peninsula.’”

Qur’an 2:191 "Slay them wherever you find and catch them, and drive them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter."
Qur’an 33:25 “Allah drove the disbelievers back…and helped the believers in battle… He terrorized the People of the Book so that you killed some and made many captive.”

How come there are so many other surahs that are from the Medina era that are considered the stronger surahs that abrogated the weak surah you posted?

Al-Baqara is a Medinan Surah.

One of the later ones, in fact.

It was certainly not abrogated.

Well really what the Qu’ran says or what Surrahs say is basically irrelevant here. On this subject what is important is what Muslims believe they say. We can see in many nations that compulsion in religion is proper for Islam according to those believers. Almost any nation under Sharia believes compulsion or extermination is proper. Again its a question of what is true Islam.

Nah.

The Qur’an says no compulsion. Shari’ah therefore says no compulsion. If there are Muslims out there stupid enough to believe the sort of garbage being posted on this thread about Islam, then they’re simply wrong.

The solution therefore is to correct them–a task that would be undoubtedly much easier without people like yourself and R_not continually repeating the same foolishness that does nothing but increase hatred and oppression.

I would like to also add that the opinion being propagated by R_not above is entirely false.

As usual, she claims that Al-Baqara is Meccan, which it is not. She also claims it was early, while it was later. And she claims it was abrogated.

Actually her logic is first that it was early, medinan, and therefore abrogated. But it wasn’t early, Medinan, and it wasn’t abrogated either. There isn’t any scholar of Islam I’ve ever heard who says that it was abrogated.

Her claim is a total fabrication, and I suppose it is my duty to point that out, lest anyone else be hoodwinked.

**Very good sis Amy. Your posts #11 and #12, both very well and 100 percent true. You have explained it all that the bashing is all false propaganda agaainst islam. The effort to blame Quran is useless.

Baqarah was revelealed in Madinah and the verse 2:256 was also a later verse. And it was strictly practiced that no one should be oppressed due to his/her beliefs. That was the order of the day.

The nearby christian states had killed peaceful Muslim preachers. They were taken to task and war was fought to establish “No Compulsion in religion.”

If there is any misbehaviour in any Muslim countries now then that is not Islam. There are so many fraudy beliefs amongst the christians too which were not taught by Jesus at all. It happens in many nations. I have a list of false fraudy beliefs of the church. Shall I present a few here now?

Islam did not allow compulsion in any religion. That is a fact.**

I’ll ignore the venom.

You say that those Muslims are wrong. You derive this authority from what? You say the Qu’ran, but the Muslims who disagree with you derive their authority from the same source. Who is right? This is what you seem to have a hard time grasping.

You’re a convert to your faith and so you’re zealous for it. That’s understandable. But simply dismissing the crimes of Shar’iah against non-believers doesn’t make them disappear. Entire nations follow a version of Islam you say is not valid. Why are you right and they wrong?

You say there is no compulsion. That’s awesome. I certainly prefer your view. So what do we do about those that say you’re wrong? Who should instruct them? Moderate Muslims? You said once that moderate Muslims were not real Muslims so I assume it wouldn’t be them. Also how would you instruct them? What would you tell them? Like do you think its OK to charge non-believers a tax for not believing? Is that OK? Do you believe that other religions have a right to preach their beliefs openly in a Muslim nation? Do you think that Muslims who convert in good conscience should be left alone to practice their new faith? Feel free to answer honestly I just want to hear your views I won’t attack you for it. I just want to know what you really think about all of this.

I don’t learn Islam from the internet, but I learn it from scholars who have devoted their lives to studying it, and I have heard over and over and over this understanding–there is no compulsion in religion.

Now just for a moment let’s ignore the vague and misleading term “moderate Muslims.” Instead, let’s refer to “mainstream Muslims.” Those who make up the bulk of practicing Muslims. I will filter out the extremists at one end who wish to force their ideology on others, and I will filter out the extremists at the other end who don’t really practice Islam anyway. We’re talking therefore about mainstream Muslims.

Mainstream, taught by mainstream scholars, just like mine. My view is the mainstream one. It is the majority view, and it is the correct view.

You are not being oppressed in our lands. but, it is quite the opposite for Christians, or any other non-muslim, in muslim lands. Or in such areas as kashmir and India, or now in Bulgaria. And we know this happens elsewhere in Africa and Southeast Asia.

Your claim of oppression is false and tiring. No one hates you except your own prophet who told everyone that women are not as intelligent as a man, and most of them are in hell.

Abrogation

FOUR DEGREES OF ABROGATION

  1. Surahs that were not influenced by applications of the doctrine of the Abrogator and the Abrogated. (43 Surahs)

Surahs 1, 12, 36, 49, 55, 57, 61, 62, 66, 67, 68, 69, 71, 72, 77, 78, 79, 82, 83, 84, 85, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 104, 105, 106, 107,109, 108, 110, 112, 113, and 114

  1. Surahs that maintained the authority of the Abrogator, but their original wording was not abrogated/nullified.(6 Surahs)

Surahs 48, 59, 63, 64, 65, and 87

  1. Surahs that had their wording abrogated/nullified, but maintained their authority for applications. (40 Surahs)

Surahs 6, 7 10, 11, 13, 15 16 17, 18, 20, 23, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 34, 35, 37, 38, 39, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 51, 53, 54, 60, 68, 70, 74, 75, 76, 77, 86, 80, 88, and 109

  1. Surahs that have had both their authority for applications and their wording abrogated. (24 Surahs)

Surahs 2, 3, 5, 8, 9, 14, 18, 19, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 33, 34, 40, 42, 51, 52, 56, 58, 73, 103, and 108

As you can see surah 2 is indeed abrogated.

OK, so what does no compulsion in religion mean to you?

Well, it is important since that is where muslims get their ‘commands’ from. And the hadiths and the koran are what the sharia laws are based on.

What you are doing is touching on the dualism in islam.

Our major intellectual breakthrough is to see that dualism is the foundation and key to understanding Islam. Everything about Islam comes in twos starting with its foundational declaration: (1) there is no god but Allah and (2) Mohammed is His prophet. Therefore, Islam is Allah (Koran) and the Sunna (words and deeds of Mohammed found in the Sira and Hadith).

Endless ink has been wasted on trying to answer the question of what is Islam? Is Islam the religion of peace? Or is the true Islam a radical ideology? Is a moderate Muslim the real Muslim?

Our first clue about the dualism is in the Koran, which is actually two books, the Koran of Mecca (early) and the Koran of Medina (later). The insight into the logic of the Koran comes from the large numbers of contradictions in it. On the surface, Islam resolves these contradictions by resorting to “abrogation”. This means that the verse written later supersedes the earlier verse. But in fact, since the Koran is considered by Muslims to be the perfect word of Allah, both verses are sacred and true. The later verse is “better,” but the earlier verse cannot be wrong since Allah is perfect. This is the foundation of dualism. Both verses are “right.” Both sides of the contradiction are true in dualistic logic. The circumstances govern which verse is used.

Read the article. So, the ‘peaceful’ ones tell us there is no compulsion and can prove it, while the radicals follow the stronger Medina surahs. And if anyone strikes back at those violent ones that the ‘peaceful’ ones say distort islam but who they also support via money, morale and in some instances hiding them - then you will hear the ‘peaceful’ ones. As we did when Israel finally struck back at hamas. Look at the situation now - hamas has resumed the bombing into Israel and no muslim bothers about it, and still claim that the ‘occupiers’, the ‘oppressors’, etc are the Israelis. :shrug:

The article also goes into the term of ‘human being’ which is not a term in islam. It is interesting.

I’ve been waiting for a response from Muslim posters since Feb. 12th (in the “Abusing Muhammad” thread) regarding the subject of “no compulsion” and the killing of apostates. I have yet to receive a response (other than from planten who has condemned the practice of killing apostates. :thumbsup:)

I’m still waiting for Sister Amy (and other Muslim posters) to answer this and clarify their position. This was what a sheikh wrote (the bolded is mine):

(1) This is the ruling of Allaah and His Messenger, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: **“Whoever changes his religion, kill him.” **(reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3017).

(2) The one who has known the religion which Allaah revealed, entered it and practised it, then rejected it, despised it and left it, is a person who does not deserve to live on the earth of Allaah and eat from the provision of Allaah.

(3) By leaving Islaam, the apostate opens the way for everyone who wants to leave the faith, thus spreading apostasy and encouraging it.

(4) The apostate is not to be killed without warning. Even though his crime is so great, he is given a last chance, a respite of three days in which to repent. If he repents, he will be left alone; if he does not repent, then he will be killed.

(5) If the punishment for murder and espionage (also known as high treason) is death, then what should be the punishment for the one who disbelieves in the Lord of mankind and despises and rejects His religion? Is espionage or shedding blood worse than leaving the religion of the Lord of mankind and rejecting it?

(6) None of those who bleat about personal freedom and freedom of belief would put up with a neighbour’s child hitting their child or justify this as “personal freedom,” so how can they justify leaving the true religion and rejecting the sharee’ah which Allaah revealed to teach mankind about His unity and bring justice and fairness to all?

We ask Allaah for safety and health. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad .
islamqa.com/en/ref/811/apostasy

And this was Sister Amy’s response (See post #161 for reference):

Sister Amy: May Allah protect him and keep him safe, and reward him for all the work he does.

I didn’t say “no” and I didn’t say “yes,” but I said “Not necessarily.” The answer from the sheikh (hafidhahullah) is a good answer–one I’ve referred to myself a couple times.
What’s also important to understand is the role of apostasy in early Islam–that it isn’t just changing one’s faith or creed, but in actuality committing treason and going to war with the Muslims. In such a case, absolutely, the penalty is death.

But there are other scholars you can check with who also point out that sometimes leaving the religion of Islam is not that kind of apostasy, and especially without an Islamic state to commit treason against, the penalty of death doesn’t quite make sense.

I don’t disagree with what the sheikh wrote. But sometimes that ruling does not apply. (Note, for instance, that he is in Saudi Arabia, and not the USA, where circumstances are drastically different.)

Here is what I want answered:

Then do you explicitly condemn the killing of people who simply leave Islam and wish to practice another faith?

yes, a task that would be much easier when people are out here that know islam and know that muslims practice taqiyya/kithman and will say anything to make it seem like islam is good and peaceful.

We have from too many clerics mouths that there is indeed compulsion. We also have from too many muslim’s own hands the deaths of many who have left islam, or who are being terrorized because they are not muslims, or who are being deceived into reverting to sin, oh er I mean islam. And we have too many who are silence and do nothing in their own religion to stop all of this except they are hellbent, and work tirelessly, on telling us that all of the above is not true.

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