No historical evidence that Jesus actually existed


#1

How can I answer an agnostic when they say that there is no “historical” evindence that Jesus actually existed as a living breathing human being? I get really frustrated, and in the past I have sited the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Shroud of Turin… but there has got to be a better reply that I can have beside that. Do you have any good ideas?


#2


Extra-Biblical Historical Evidence forthe LIFE, DEATH, and
RESURRECTION of JESUS

NCIENT NON-CHRISTIAN SOURCES**[size=]A**[/size]


#3

Two sites are always good here, the Bede Faith and Reason site and Tektonics.org, let me find the links…

Shattering the “Christ Myth” (and many other articles on this site by J.P. Holding)

Refuting the “Christ Myth” (and many other articles on this site as well)

Your primary “Jesus myther” these days is author Earl Doherty, in the past it was G.A. Wells. Know thine enemy. :smiley: :rolleyes:

Phil P


#4

Early Historical Documents on Jesus Christ


#5

Back in 2002, these “no evidence for Jesus” claims caused me to lose my faith in God, and fall back into sin. I felt that I was an atheist, and said so. And yet, something deep within kept gnawing at me.

So I got out my New Testament, and read through the book of Acts, and read St. Paul’s letters to the Churches. St. Paul’s letters really convinced me that the “Jesus is a hoax” crowd were and are WAY off base. Paul’s genuine sincerity and honesty jump out of the pages of scripture and right into your face.
It was Paul’s ever-so-obvious sincerity that led me to re-read the evidence for Jesus and ultimately restored my faith.
No way was Christianity founded upon a hoax.

Love,
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)


#6

[quote=Humbled4Jesus]How can I answer an agnostic when they say that there is no “historical” evindence that Jesus actually existed as a living breathing human being?
[/quote]

I prefer rolling my eyes. Then one can point out that there are four Gospels attesting to Jesus’ life, all written at different times by different people, that all largely agree with each other. From there one can move into non-Christian texts such as Josephus, Suetonius, and Tacitus.

– Mark L. Chance.


#7

Whether or not Jesus was a historical person isn’t all that relevant to most atheists, myself included. After all, the evidence for the historicity of Mohammed is pretty ironclad, but that doesn’t make me a Muslim.


#8

Hmmm. It seems that there is more historical evidence for the existence of Jesus than there is for the existence of my great grandfather. This could be a problem.


#9

[quote=JimG]Hmmm. It seems that there is more historical evidence for the existence of Jesus than there is for the existence of my great grandfather. This could be a problem.
[/quote]

for you and great-grandma both


#10

[quote=MrS]for you and great-grandma both


[/quote]

Well, I do have faith that he was born, and I think I know where, but I have no documentation, no witnesses, and no contemporary accounts. Just don’t ask me to prove that I really exist other than in cyberspace.


#11

this statement arises from a basic fallacy, the refusal to accept the New Testament as a primary source. Such a document from any other historical entity would be so regarded, it takes someone blinded by prejudice against the Church to fail to apply the same historical standards to this source as to similar writings.


#12

[quote=mlchance]I prefer rolling my eyes. Then one can point out that there are four Gospels attesting to Jesus’ life, all written at different times by different people, that all largely agree with each other. From there one can move into non-Christian texts such as Josephus, Suetonius, and Tacitus.

– Mark L. Chance.
[/quote]

Good answer. I agree with you.

By the way this is to Humbled4Jesus. You should not use the Shroud of Turin as historical evidence of Jesus. Nothing has been proven yet by testing and research and it is not approved as authentic by the Church. Currently we can believe it or not. Personally I’m leaning towards believing.


#13

Thanks so much for all your replies! Now I really have some options, I’m going to start reading those links as soon as I am finished here.

Thistle, I usually pulled the shroud of Turin out of my sleeve when I can’t think of any other response. You are right though. I know there is no way of even proving who’s death shroud that actually was, although personally I am inclined to believe it is Jesus himself. I read a really intriguing book written by a medical doctor named Pierre Barbet, M.D. The name of the book was called “A doctor at Calvary: The passion of our Lord Jesus Christ as described by a surgeon” It was extremely interesting from a medical standpoint regarding the blood and other imprints that are on the shroud. It also brings to life exactly what Jesus must have gone through medically while on the cross. Its gut wrenching at times. It doesn’t prove anything but its a very interesting read non the less. :slight_smile:


#14

It seems very interesting to me, that a person who did not actually exist had such a major impact on human history. More so than those persons who can be historically traced, not that Jesus cant be historically traced.
-He split time in 2.
-He has the largest religious following in the world.
-Even those of non-christian religions, acknowledge him, more often than not.
-Of the religion founded upon Him, more good has come into the world than by any other means.
-etc.


#15

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