"No more pain" = no more hell (eventually)

It is written, "He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” Therefore, all of God’s creation will eventually not be in pain, including those in hell. May this post be encouragement to all who are paralyzed in fear towards a God who is love.

P.S: I don’t claim to know what happens after death, and probably only God knows the fulfillment of the meaning of Revelation 21:4. However, we have great reason to hope.

HE’s talking about Heaven, not Hell!!! Hell is everlasting! Read the rest of the Bible !! God Bless, Memaw

Context is key.

Hell is very real. It is a place of eternal torment and suffering.

The verse you quoted refers to the reward of those who attain Heaven.

It’s no pain in general, not talking about heaven, it’s talking about all of God’s universe, after the first heaven and earth pass away. Not sure if you actually read the rest of Revelation but I did. The former things have passed away at this point, and death and hell go into the lake of fire, signifying they are no more. OK, no one really understands Revelation except God, but if it says no more pain, the scripture cannot be annulled. Also, the Greek word for eternity means age, so after eternity, this time of no pain will come about. God loves you.

From the Cathechism:

IV. Hell

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."610 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.611 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.612 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"613 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"614

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."615 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

Estel,

I’m afraid you are simply repeating the old heresy of Origenism. Origen was a great Church Father who loved Scripture and was obedient to Jesus through His Church. However, in the absence of theological precedent, he speculated about a possible “apokatastasis” which would result in the eventual emptying of Hell. Origen’s later disciples took this speculation and ran with it, and eventually the Church pronounced this idea a heresy, since Jesus Himself in the gospels taught that Hell is eternal.

Peace

The Catechism also points out two scripture verses right below that, saying that God does not want anyone to perish, and that nothing is impossible for God. (See below). Also, it’s eternity that we don’t understand, and this could very well have an end. Now, the only one who understood what I was saying was the one who mentioned Origen, but in fact, only some of Origen’s thinking is refuted by the church. I do not look to Origen for proof, but Saint Thomas Aquinas and Saint Francis De Sales both were quoted as saying the punishment in hell can be mitigated. We are free to believe it. But more compelling are the words of Christ who came to seek and save the lost. Yes, Jesus through the gospels teaches hell, but the Greek word for eternity means age. Who knows what was lost in translation? But the Church teaches:

The Church prays that no one should be lost: “Lord, let me never be parted from you.” If it is true that no one can save himself, it is also true that God “desires all men to be saved” (1 Tim 2:4), and that for him “all things are possible” (Mt 19:26).

We are not free to believe everything taught by Sts. Thomas Aquinas and Francis de Sales. They are NOT the Church. The Church teaches that hell is forever. Also if eternity has an end, so does God, for God is eternal.

Revelation 14 says:

…10he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11"And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

I’ll post it again what the Church teaches:

The Church prays that no one should be lost: “Lord, let me never be parted from you.” If it is true that no one can save himself, it is also true that God “desires all men to be saved” (1 Tim 2:4), and that for him “all things are possible” (Mt 19:26).

That’s right from the Catechism.

And the Church is not Christ, who seeks and saves the lost.

And to your second point, God transcends all time and space, God has no end. Hell, however, may very well have and end.

The Church is not Christ? Are you kidding me? The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ guided by the Holy Spirit. You speak heresy and nothing but. Jesus promised his Church that the Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth. Hell and its permanency are DOGMA. When you speak against it, you speak lies. Do you know who the father of lies is?

Yes, a good point is made in revelation 14. However, if heaven and earth pass away, then “day and night” may also have an end. As for forever and ever, that’s trickier. However, the ancient Greek word for “forever” is Aeon, meaning age or eon, which could just mean a long period of time.

Read in the context please…

In verse 15 of Revelation 20 it talks about how all the wicked were throne into the lake of fire, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." John then goes onto say he saw a new heavens and new earth, and with the holy city of the new Jerusalem ascending down (Revelation 21:1-3) which the church understands as a symbol for all the righteous. Then the next verse is the verse you’re talking about and with all the context it’s clear it’s only talking about the righteous here.

Please, don’t fall into the heresy Origen fell into.

I’m not going to argue that the Church is Christ. Your mind is gone if you think the Church is Christ. Sure, Jesus is the head of the Church, but he didn’t write the Catechism ( which I believe is true by the way). Even JP II admitted the Church has made mistakes. This topic is about the eventual end of hell.

I am not saying the Church is Christ, I said it was the Mystical Body of Christ. Christ is the head, WE are its members. The Church can make mistakes, but not when it comes to facts of Faith and Morals. In that area She is protected from error. It is with Infallible instruction the Church which Christ set up to guide sinners not only declares there is a hell but that is forever.

Yes, I understand that revelation 20 and 21 speak of the lake of fire. Why couldn’t those who are in the lake of fire eventually experience no more pain? Is not anything possible for the God of love? And perhaps the lake of fire refers to annihilation, although I prefer to think that it is to destroy the “former things” like death and hell. It does also mention that hell goes into the lake of fire. God loves you.

However, the exact Greek expression is: “eis aionas aionon”. The “eis” makes every bit of difference. According to my Greek-English dictionary, the form “eis aion” means “always” or “forever”. “Eis aionas aionon” could then be translated “age upon age” or “age without end” or “world without end”.

I agree with everything you just said, including hell. However, my point was that it is possible that there will no more pain, even in hell, since it does say in the bible there will be no more pain after heaven and earth pass away.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.