No more taxes?


#1

In observing the Planned Parenthood debate this morning, it occurred to me that it seems morally imperative for American bishops to call all Catholics in this country to stop paying taxes. I may be wrong, but I see no moral alternative. All the Catholics taxes together do result in a babies death. However, did early Christians stop paying taxes to Rome while it was persecuting them? If not, should they have?? Hard issues, but, also, hard times


#2

Trouble is that taxes also pay for good stuff too. Like fire departments. And roads. And police. And schools.

So, yeah. If we all stop paying we’ll just have a 3rd world situation on our hands. And then PP will just be one of many problems we’ve got to deal with.

But I like the fact you want to do something in the now. I mean I like the fact that you’re ready to take action. Like right away.

Peace.

-Trident


#3

But that’s not the only thing paid for by taxes. If you refuse to pay your lawful tax, prepare to spend some time in jail.


#4

I’m wondering about the moral angle. Is it lawful to give a company money knowing they will use it for good and evil as long as the good seems to out way the bad? Let’s say there is two grocery stores. One sells condoms and the other doesn’t, but the second is way more expensive. Can a Catholic shop at the first store??


#5

To the contrary, Jesus specifically spoke of paying Caesar’s taxes and Paul exhorted Christians to obey the rulers put in place by God. And they were talking about pagan Rome, a murderous regime indeed and one that ultimately executed both of them unjustly, so it’s not as though they had only a government that agreed with them in mind.

Also, I’m pretty sure our taxes pay for more than killing babies. If you are speaking specifically of abortion, it is actually illegal for federal money to pay for abortion except in rare emergency cases.

Usagi


#6

As long as you are not buying the condoms for contraceptive purposes, there is no moral issue in that situation. To go back to.St. Paul, he didn’t think it was intrinsically wrong for Christians to purchase and eat meat taken from animals sacrificed to false gods, so purchasing unrelated products from the same seller can hardly be bad. (Paul cautioned against giving scandal to other believers in eating such food, and the Council of Jerusalem put “meat sacrificed to idols” on its no-no list, but both cases were matters of improving relations between Christians with different sensitivities; Paul clearly doesn’t think the act itself is sinful.)

Usagi


#7

If PP is so concerned about meeting the health needs of indigent women, and relies on taxpayer funding,so be it.However,they should be legally restricted from performing abortions,period! If they insist on killing babies,then federal funds should be removed entirely.In an ideal world they would be shut down completely,stopping their infanticide would be a good starting point.


#8

As others have said, taxes pay for good things, too, things that benefit the poor and needy, things that benefit all of us. And anyway, if Catholics stopped paying their taxes, they wouldn’t get away with it. Much better to form a coalition not to vote for anyone who supports abortion or the federal funding of Planned Parenthood. I don’t understand why its director made a base salary of $520,000/year. I do not donate a penny to charities in which the “bosses” make that kind of money. The work they do is not that difficult.


#9

I asked a similar question, and got some thoughtful answers, here.

I was seriously considering it, but decided my first obligation is to take care of my family, who would have a hard time if I were in jail.
I really can’t believe the things our Congress do and allow. It seems as if many don’t have consciences at all.

.


#10

In the Catholic Church, there are different proximities to cooperating with evil. Tax payers are removed significantly from the evil act of subsidized abortion providers that we need not worry about being in sin ourselves.

The politicians who support the distribution of taxes to abortion providers, even if that money is not directly used for abortions, is cooperating more proximately with the sin of abortion (all money is fungible, we all know that, but that’s another discussion).


#11

Ah, but we are not supposed to be overly concerned with mans laws, especially if it conflicts with Gods laws. Jesus warned us MANY would be persecuted due to his name and encouraged us to keep to our faith…problem is, in the modern world, most people would not even consider doing this. I dont think any of this is coincidence, the enemy has ensured its literally impossible for most of us to avoid things like this.

I doubt ANY church would even suggest this, they know people living in the world today have to ‘compromise’ a little on things like this, thats really the root of the problem, evil has gotten so prevalent, working its way into sooo many different areas of life, it would be very tough to abide by what Jesus instructed.

However, the churches and probably lots of people will likely have to answer for this when they come before God (myself included), and what would our answer be, " Well, God I was worried about getting arrested"…somehow, I doubt that excuse will work.


#12

Your object is to win, not lose. Because you are trying to help people. So that even before you begin to think to fight the battle you must have already won it. This requires numbers, several times the number of the opposition.


#13

Can anyone expound more on this “different proximities to cooperating with evil”?? One persons taxes aren’t going to count towards a babies death. However, all the Catholics taxes would. So it seems that the collective taxes are murderous; that is, some babies directly die because of it. Jesus never settled the issue of taxes. He left it to people to settle their own relationship with the conquerors. Even if early Christians did pay taxes which directly paid the executioners of Christians, perhaps those early Christians were wrong.

I caught a little of CSPAN yesterday. Representative Diana Diegrette directly admitted that the Democrats are against legislation on abortion because PP helps them get elected.


#14

Theoretically, you could choose to not pay taxes to fund PP through the act of electing to state of federal office candidates who would eliminate PP funding. Right?


#15

I think that would be the best way.:thumbsup:


#16

Like it was stated above, for this to work, it would take the numbers to do it, I dont think many people would even consider doing such a thing, far too many christians are more worried about the secular laws, if churches even suggest it, it wont go anywhere, just one or two parishes would not be enough, they would all be arrested, but if a majority in every state took part…that probably would work overnight.

Lukewarm christians is the key to this, it would be nice to see more priests encouraging people to not be so concerned with secular laws like this and really taking action, not just going thru the motions every sunday.


#17

In the 60s, the Freedom Riders worked to end segregation, a cause similar to the abortion cause. The country was as divided as it is today.
They were mostly young people, as I understand it, both black and white, and they risked their lives. At one point their goal was to fill the prisons so full that no more would fit. There was extreme violence; people died.
When it got bad enough, and the media was broadcasting events worldwide, the president was finally forced to take action, and send in troops to control the situation and save lives.
I think many Christians would be willing to put their lives on the line to end abortion, but it is not the same situation. We can’t get on a bus to end abortion.
It appears at this point as if the best plan is through the courts and the legislative branch. If anyone has a better idea, I’d like to hear it.

.


#18

Right, we cant get on a bus to end abortion, but what all those people did back then, was disobeying laws in certain areas, they knew they would be arrested in large numbers by this, same thing could be done with abortion, but we would have to find a law to break regarding abortion, where numerous people would be arrested, maybe something like getting lots of people to stand around the abortion centers, when some are arrested, more come in and take their spots, of course, there would have to be enough people for the city/ state to be overwhelmed and have to call in national guard.

Just like the civil rights actions, something would eventually have to break, problem is back then civil rights were agreed on to be the right thing in a majority of the country, that is not the case with abortion, so it may not do anything more than call attention to the issue.

However, personally I think the Vatican should take this more seriously, I mean we have allowed 50-60 million to be murdered so far, something tells me the ‘just causes’ for going to war would be met, maybe a group like the crusaders could be formed, and they would go out and ‘fight’ this war on Gods behalf


#19

I do not believe in militancy.

What is to stop the other side from doing the exact same thing as you?


#20

Exactly. Mass protest is a tool of the political left. No amount of mass protesting will do any good so long as peoples’ hearts remain unchanged. Those whose hearts are unchanged will only find other avenues to accomplish what they will.

The only real way to end abortion is for individual hearts to change and for individual people to respond to the Holy Spirit–i.e., more evangelism, more individual Christians acting like Christians and interacting with others on a one-on-one basis about Christ, the Church, and about the value of life.


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