No one suspicious of Judas at the Last Supper


#1

I’ve been reading the Last Supper in the gospels and it occur to me why none of the apostles were suspicious of Judas. Matthew 26:20-25 has Jesus confirming Judas was the betrayer when Judas asked if he was the one. In John 13:29-30 Jesus said that the person who would betray him would be handed the morsel. That person was Judas. For these reasons, I don’t get how the apostles would just sit there and not have any remarks about it.

Please help me :slight_smile:


#2

We have the benefit of hindsight and of the whole of the Gospels to inform us. The Apostles didn’t. To them it was an unfolding event with an unknown future. Even though Jesus had plainly told them he would be betrayed, handed over to the Gentiles, crucified and rise on the third day, they didn’t get it. This is, in part, because their ideas about the Messiah were centered on an earthly reign and also, after seeing Jesus perform miracles, they couldn’t imagine he could be taken and killed, even though he predicted it. They were, at this time, spiritually blind and deaf. One of the Gospels tells us that they thought Judas was going to buy something needed for the dinner after he left. They just weren’t “plugged in” as to what was really going on. It wasn’t until Pentecost that they put things together and finally understood who Jesus truly was and what his mission had actually been. This shows that man in his natural state cannot grasp the things of God, but needs God’s grace to see and to do God’s will.


#3

I can understand and agree with the answer Della has given but also understand an ponder over what gigabyte has also stated and wonder as well…

i bounce back and forth… is what it is…

after hearing from Christ that one of them will betray Him, they all go around announcing, no not me, or who, or is it me ! they are in a frenzy basically, but then to think out of all that had just happened in that moment in time, that all of a sudden Judas gets up and is like, alrighty I gota go an take care of some stuff i had planned earlier today, i’ll catch up with you guys later… I mean that would be a big friggin red flag to me or rather I would hope it would be… It just does not make sense to think that such an announcement could be made, and everyone would be content to just go on with out figuring the matter out right then an there and get an answer on exactly WHO it is .

I can not imagine how Christ managed to calm everyone down and carry on with what had to be done, but how could Christ not calm them down.

It really is mind boggling Della is spot on with the answer, but it is just so hard to imagine how after everything they have seen an heard from Christ how in the world they could not pick up on the hint that something bad is about to happen, perhaps not coming to the realization of exactly who Christ is at that moment in time is some what understandable, but to not be able to pick up on a clue that something really bad is going to happen, just that idea alone, not that Christ is going to be arrested, killed, etc…

we all have gut feelings on when a situation is going to turn south an we need to get out of dodge, but to think that they had no clue at all about anything when Christ specifically said one of them will betray Him, and not believe it after EVERYTHING they have seen an heard… To not have this basic feeling of something really aweful is about to take place and perhaps they should scrutinize one another or at least demand an answer as to who it is odd.

I am sure there are better answers out there to explain how they did not have the time to write everything down, preserve it, etc, then even if they did we would have conspiracy theories that the Vatican / Rome is hiding the truth about it…

A never ending debate / speculation that we will just have to wait for the answers when we reach Heaven.


#4

People often go into a state of denial when faced with a looming situation they simply can’t/don’t want to face. Look at Jihadist terrorism, for example. For years experts were telling us that it wouldn’t stay located in the Middle East, but would become a big problem for Europe and America, as well. Who took them seriously or did anything substanstial about it? No one–not until 9-1-1 happened. It’s called the ostrich symdrome. If we don’t want to face it, it can’t/won’t happen.

If the Vatican/Rome were trying to cover anything up, why would the Gospel accounts be so forthcoming about everyone’s faults and failures? Why tell us Peter denied Christ three times? Why relate that everyone except a few women and St. John deserted Jesus when he needed them most? Why describe the problems in the early Church in the Epistles and Acts of the Apostles? No, that argument won’t wash. The reality is the Apostles weren’t ready to hear the truth.


#5

Excellent posts Della, and also very, very thought provoking! :thumbsup:

Peace, Mark


#6

[quote="john78, post:3, topic:328460"]
I can understand and agree with the answer Della has given but also understand an ponder over what gigabyte has also stated and wonder as well....

i bounce back and forth...... is what it is....

after hearing from Christ that one of them will betray Him, they all go around announcing, no not me, or who, or is it me ! they are in a frenzy basically, but then to think out of all that had just happened in that moment in time, that all of a sudden Judas gets up and is like, alrighty I gota go an take care of some stuff i had planned earlier today, i'll catch up with you guys later... I mean that would be a big friggin red flag to me or rather I would hope it would be... It just does not make sense to think that such an announcement could be made, and everyone would be content to just go on with out figuring the matter out right then an there and get an answer on exactly WHO it is .

I can not imagine how Christ managed to calm everyone down and carry on with what had to be done, but how could Christ not calm them down.

It really is mind boggling Della is spot on with the answer, but it is just so hard to imagine how after everything they have seen an heard from Christ how in the world they could not pick up on the hint that something bad is about to happen, perhaps not coming to the realization of exactly who Christ is at that moment in time is some what understandable, but to not be able to pick up on a clue that something really bad is going to happen, just that idea alone, not that Christ is going to be arrested, killed, etc.....

we all have gut feelings on when a situation is going to turn south an we need to get out of dodge, but to think that they had no clue at all about anything when Christ specifically said one of them will betray Him, and not believe it after EVERYTHING they have seen an heard... To not have this basic feeling of something really aweful is about to take place and perhaps they should scrutinize one another or at least demand an answer as to who it is odd.

I am sure there are better answers out there to explain how they did not have the time to write everything down, preserve it, etc, then even if they did we would have conspiracy theories that the Vatican / Rome is hiding the truth about it.....

A never ending debate / speculation that we will just have to wait for the answers when we reach Heaven.

[/quote]

They were human, plain and simple. Human nature has not changed that much in thousands of years. Again, you are looking at this in hindsight. YOu know the end of the story-- they were living it. Think you could have done better? :shrug: :D

According to your way if thinking they should have been no denial on Peter's part, the others would not have been afraid, etc. Remember, the same Apostles who pledged their loyalty to Jesus could not stay awake with him in the garden.

Talk and bravado by humans is always cheap words -- even the 12 Jesus chose -- until they had the resurrection experience and the gift of the Spirit at Pentecost

The strength and power of the gospel narratives is that we can see ourselves in the faults and missteps of Jesus' followers.


#7

Possibly some of us may not reach Heaven.:shrug: I’ll be totally amazed if I do. And even if I should make it I’ll probably be so far away from the Throne it won’t matter much anyway.:shrug:


#8

You know how, when the Apostles would argue who was the greatest among them, Jesus would correct them and, basically, tell them to be as innocent as children?

I think that the Apostles didn’t have suspicious minds toward one another, including Judas Iscariot. But, one might say, it is written that Judas used to steal from the contributions. How would they know that, except the Spirit told them later on?


#9

A lot of the “Prosperity Preachers” use this as proof that Jesus was not poor–that Judas would steal from the money box.:shrug::shrug:


#10

That’s interesting that you point that out. Jesus was indeed poor in the world AND lived on donations, mostly from the women who followed him as Scripture says.


#11

When under great stress (as the apostles would have been, considering the nature of that Passover meal and what Jesus did and said), a human can “dissociate”. Hard to imagine but it’s happened to me. The mind just peels away from the apparent reality, there is a blindness to the reality before you, and this can last for hours (for some). Imagine sitting at table with Jesus,seeing and hearing what He was doing, thinking that you would be losing Him, how horrible, how unbelievable, how IMPOSSIBLE that would be (given all His miracles and who you KNEW Him to be!) I think the signal was subtle; I doubt all eyes were watching when Judas dipped the bread and, because he carried the purse (just as others have said), it was FAR easier to think to oneself that he was on his way out to buy more (bread, wine, etc.) than that he was going to betray the Lord! I’ll wager every single one of those apostles was wracked with remorse and self blame as they saw Jesus led away, tortured and crucified. “Why didn’t I KNOW” was probably a question they asked themselves. Maybe the answer is: this dissociation has a genuine, Godly purpose, especially in this case! Had they rushed Judas and thrown him to the ground and stopped the process…what, then?


#12

[quote="bsroufek, post:10, topic:328460"]
That's interesting that you point that out. Jesus was indeed poor in the world AND lived on donations, mostly from the women who followed him as Scripture says.

[/quote]

I'm so glad I'm out of that stuff. Interesting how they could read something directly from Scripture but put such a spin on it that they made it say something completely different from what it plainly said.


#13

The part where he left to “buy” something is not suspicious when I read it. The part in which Judas asked if he was a betrayer and Jesus said yes strongly strikes to me to be a confession that he will kill Jesus. Yes, the apostles could be spiritually death and blind, but I don’t get how they can do away the undeniable facts Judas is a betrayer and not have remarks and concern towards him.


#14

I thought Jesus told everyone that the one whom he passed the morsel to was to betray him. That man happened to be Judas. If the others did not listen, then at least John the disciple whom Jesus loved would have heard him because he asked Jesus the question when he reclined towards His chest. Did John keep it a secret from everyone? Was he in disbelief?


#15

Although it may seem like Jesus was pointing their attention to Judas, I believe He was doing the opposite. Notice that Jesus never mentions Judas by name, and allows each disciple to consider himself as a potential traitor. It is interesting to consider that every one in that room would betray Him to some degree by not coming to His defense.

I think Jesus mentions the betrayal to them in order to spare them from complete shock. He had been telling them for a while that He would be crucified, and now He informs them that His death would come by the treachery of one from their own circle.

I think that Jesus kept the traitor’s identity discreet in order to ensure Judas’ success. Jesus does nothing to deter Judas from his mission. Not that Jesus is conspiring with Judas, but it was written and therefore must be fulfilled, “Even my close friend in whom I trusted, who ate my bread, has lifted his heel against me.” (Psalm 41.10)


#16

I’m not gonna say I’m old but I was so busy in the kitchen cooking the Last Supper I couldn’t pay attention to what was happening out there in the dining area!:rolleyes:


#17

[quote="LegoGE1947, post:16, topic:328460"]
I'm not gonna say I'm old but I was so busy in the kitchen cooking the Last Supper I couldn't pay attention to what was happening out there in the dining area!:rolleyes:

[/quote]

I'll say it then. You're old! :)


#18

The others had all asked the same question. If it were me I’d be pondering my own possible betrayal rather than listening to Jesus’ words to another. Besides, we do not know if he spoke in a voice all could hear or only loud enough for Judas to hear. Jesus’ intention wasn’t to affirm who would betray him to all the Apostles but to Judas. He announced that one would betray him, but this doesn’t mean he meant to reveal that person’s identity to them at that time. St. John may have overheard, but in his shock, or perhaps not fully understanding, he said nothing. Each of us has to be concerned with our own state of grace, not that of others–that may have been why John or any others who may have heard Jesus’ words to Judas mind set at that moment. And in a room full of men all talking at one time, they may not have heard Jesus declare it was Judas. I can see this happening, especially since they didn’t know why Judas left when he did, but assumed he had been sent to buy something.


#19

When you look at the picture of Da Vinci’s Last Supper, it is the moment after Christ has said one of them would betray them. All are in a state of shock, except Judas who is reaching to dip the bread with Christ. They all are saying, “Is it I Lord?”.

In a sense they all did betray Jesus at the end. They fled when he was arrested, and Peter was the only one who seemed to stay around, and even he denied Jesus 3 times.

So perhaps they all felt guilty, or at least were not strong their faith in Jesus at that time.

It was only after his resurrection that they all came back and believed in him again.


#20

The apostles had no idea what the effects of the betrayal would be.

Imprisonment? Arrest? Death?

Betrayal to whom? The Romans? The Sanhedron?

Was the betrayal a part of God’s plan and did it need to be carried out for the plan to work?

Here we have the leader, pointing out a betrayer, and NOT asking that he be stopped?

. . . . What would you do?


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