No Such thing as a Right to Have Babies: Population Trust

The ‘population problem’ is increasingly being seen to be the problem of declining populations, with many developed countries falling into irreversible demographic decline.

Come visit some Kanss ghost towns to see in microcosm the end result of declining birth rates. That is the fate of Europe. America is barely above replacement level.

Might want to read: Philip Longman, The Empty Cradle–How Falling Birthrates Threaten World Prosperity.

Edward:

You might want to look at some of the research done by Mark Steyn (not exactly a believer) in his book, America Alone. In America Alone, Mark Steyn makes the case that Western and Eastern Europeans and Chinese aren’t reproducing at “Replacement Rates” which means Europe is having to IMPORT immigrants from Northern Africa in order to create a work force to support the aging native Europeans who aren’t replacing themselves with children.

In Japan, Grandchildren are being replaced by robots that act as 5 year old children, because there are NO grandchildren, and Japan doesn’t allow much immigration.

Edward, the “Population Bomb” folks have repeatedly said we were overburdening our planet with people - The first number they gave for Earth’s carrying capacity was 3 Billion. The 3rd was 6 billion which they said we’d reach by the year 2000. It’s 2008, and we haven’t reached that number yet, and why should people who’ve been wrong three times be right now?

Whatever happened to, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” ?* *(Matt 28:18-20 RSV)

Whatever happened to, "You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Sama’ria and to the end of the earth." ? (Acts 1:8 RSV)

**Whatever happened to, *Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world. *? **(James 1:27 RSV)

**These are our first Obligations after worshiping and loving God:

*If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. *(James 2:15-17 RSV)

By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But if any one has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or speech but in deed and in truth. (I John 3:16-18 RSV)

Read Matthew 25:31-46 (End of Chapter) if you have any questions. You’ll see that our Lord doesn’t mention the environment - Our job is to directly help the poor and needy, not to get the government to control people’s lives.
Before you post one more post, I beg you to read The Really Inconvenient Truths, Iann Murray 2008 - Regnery Publishing, Inc, Washington, D.C. - It’s available for a discount through Amazon.com.

This book is by a SCIENTIST, and I believe it deals very well with the overpopulation myth. Please read it and consider carefully what Dr. Murray is saying.

I’m not going to care for the poor, the widow and the orphan by making things more expensive for them and making harder for them to get employment and acquire the necessities of life. And, I’m most certainly not going to help them by taking away their basic human rights and their human dignity by forcing Contraception, Abortion and Euthanasia, which ZPG most certainly requires and “Population Control” must require.

The Teaching of the Church is really quite clear on this - We can tone down our own lifestyles (recycle, use less energy and use more fuel-efficient cars), but to allow or encourage government control, exp. of family size and reproduction is an easy way to mandate Abortion and Euthanasia. Are you willing to do these in pursuit of ZPG or Population Control?

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

Edward,

There is a FOLK STORY about Galileo Galilei that makes it sound as if the SCIENCE WAS SETTLED (It wasn’t) and sound as if the Catholic Church unfairly persecuted Galileo because of heliocentrism (Also not true).

Well, It’s always easier to repeat a falsehood than the complete story, and the Church really had nothing to apologize for…

…First, the SCIENCE wasn’t settled - It was still under dispute. Copernicus had just published his works, and his formulas and arithmetic didn’t agree with Galileo’s. Since this was an issue of SCIENCE, and since St. Robert Bellarmine was a friend of Galileo, the Catholic Church decided to allow Galileo to teach his theory AS SCIENCE.

That wasn’t good enough for Galileo - He wanted his theory to be proclaimed by the Church AS DOGMA (remember the science wasn’t established and his figures differed significantly from those of Copernicus). The Church had only one option, to demand that he cease and desist from that demand and teach his theory ONLY AS SCIENCE.

Galileo refused. At that point, not even his friend St. Robert Bellarmine could protect him. The Inquisition called him, and he recanted and returned to his job teaching astronomy…

Like almost all people who went before the Inquisition, Galileo had an Attorney and Rights (Unlike most courts in Europe and elsewhere). And like most people who faced the REAL Inquisition, Galileo was not only not tortured, he was kept as a quest of a monastery for a month.

The total number of people (10,000) who died at the hands of all of the Inquisitions in Europe from the 14th Century to the early 18th centuries is fewer than the number who died during the Terror in France (8 years in the Late 18th Century) or the total who died during any single Decade of the Witch Trials in Northern Europe during the 15th and 16th Centuries…

…And, The Crusades - Have you heard of the Islamic Jihad which seized the city of Jerusalem and the Holy Land and closed the city of Jerusalem and the Holy Land some 30+ years BEFORE the 1st Crusade was called (This after nearly 3 Centuries of on-off access dependent on the generosity of the local Muslim Sheikhs)? Could opening up the Holy City and the Holy Sites to Christian pilgrims be something worth fighting for? Or, Do you think the Church should just have submitted to the Islamic hordes and prepared for Perpetual Dhimmitude?

The Catholic Church has not been perfect, but I don’t think it’s wise to apologize for existing, and I don’t think it’s wise to apologize for actions taken in self-defense.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

Well you got parts right anyway. The Church is great and wonderful and she didn’t err, some theologians of that time were mistaken, not the Church

ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=511422&Forums=0&Experts=0&Days=2007&Author=&Keyword=Galileo&pgnu=1&groupnum=0&record_bookmark=1&ORDER_BY_TXT=ORDER+BY+ReplyDate+DESC&start_at=

Here is something else you may want to take a look at as far as your population concerns go:
Priest Expert Says Infanticide is 50 Years Away from Being Normalized:
lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jul/08071616.html

Precisely.

Those who believe that the US and Canada are above the making of a new genocide are sadly mistaken. The lessons direly required from the early 20th century have not been learned, and inevitably, the history will be relived.

Right, so when you claim the evidence is irrefutable that does not make that statement true.

Yes, she does speak on moral issues, but she has spoken on scientific issues (and scientific issues as they relate to moral issues) as well. I refer you to the famous case of one Galileo Galilei, who was greatly criticized for his views on heliocentrism. We now know him to be correct, of course, and the Church admitted that she had erred in 1992.

No, that is not quite accurate.

Please see here

and

here.

Unfortunately, as great and wonderful as the Church is, she does make mistakes from time to time. Not everything the Church says and does is ex cathedra, it’s not all perfect. Crusades, inquisition, et cetera… those were moral issues, albeit a long time ago, but not something we can forget, and something for which the Church has rightly apologized.

The truth and irreformability of Church teachings do not all revolve wrong ex cathedra staements.

All the charges you mention can be explained beyond the usual propagandist arguments.

It’s not a folk story or propoganda or any of that. To be quite frank (and more than a little terse, I’m afraid) I’m not interested in having an argument here. If you don’t want to accept history and science, then don’t. It’s your loss.

OK; but history and science point to this: the next big global crisis on the horizon will be the underpopulation crisis.

Old line ‘population controllers’ are still fighting the last war.

If you don’t want to discuss something, I suggest you don’t bring it up and avoid commenting on it to begin with. It’s really not fair to claim things are facts and then proclaim your lack of interest in defending those alleged facts.

Exactly, and when Edward was presented the facts, he deceided to bail.

If you do not want to accept history and scientific fact than don’t. It’s your loss.

I was trying to help you all out. I’ve learned this in school – it’s my major. However, I was trying to hold my tongue. I really haven’t the patience, and didn’t want to get insulting or start cursing. So assuming that I’d bailed is incorrect, and turning my words around on me is just plain rude.

I don’t know about turning your words around on you, but I’m the one that provided you with the truth about Galileo.
Is this the same school where you learned about him?

No offense to you, but can I ask what college you attend? Unfortunately, many colleges have a liberal slanted agenda nowadays. BTDT.

I learnt about Galileo in the home (from my devout Catholic mother, who is a science teacher), in my Catholic high school, and in my independent study of the sciences.

I’d prefer not to reveal the name of my university for privacy’s sake, but I assure you we’re not a bunch of birkenstock-wearing, pot-smoking hippies without any critical thinking skills whatsoever. The notions of university elitism and the liberal agenda are utter rubbish.

No offense to you, but can I ask what college you attend? Unfortunately, many colleges have a liberal slanted agenda nowadays. BTDT.

Since I see that you are a Junior Member I would only ask that you drop the liberal slanted nonsense. There may certain professors who would attempt to take you in the direction of their personal beliefs, but if you are that easily swayed, you’re a fool.

And that applies in all directions.

And on topic, there are far too many people having babies who should not, in my humble opinion.

John

Thank you, John. It’s good to see some sensibility at long last.

Dear God. This is horrifying.

As to your last line…ainlt that the truth!

Agreed and the censorship coming from the leftist at these colleges are getting worse.

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