Non Catholic Preaching full of pride?


#1

I watch lots of non catholic shows and i observe that when they preach they act like they are really proud of themselves. i cannot see any humility inside of them unlike the preaching and sharing in EWTN.

I always watch the Iglesia ni Kristo channel and what i always see is criticizing all the teaching of catholic church and other church. They act like they preach while destroying other religions teaching. They are full of PRIDE.

IT IS BEST TO PREACH THE GOSPEL IN THE MOST HUMBLE WAY! NOT IN FULL OF PRIDE!


#2

I have also noticed a lot of Protestant ministers who seem very arrogant. In many Protestant circles, being a minister is considered a prestigious position rather than a humble servant of God.

I work with a "self proclaimed’ minister (the kind who say that God called them to preach so begin preaching without feeling the need to actually attend a seminary). It’s amazing how many people hold him in high esteem as though he is a celebrity. I see another side of him…not to be judgmental…but he is extremely arrogant and seems to need continual praise. He comes to work and makes sure we notice his designer clothing and feels neglected if we don’t praise the nice outfit he is wearing. His feelings are easily hurt if you say the wrong thing to him so it’s like pins and needles working with him. Of course, if I need him to do something, I can tell him that because he is so good at the task I would like him to do it. That usually works. He also continually talks about having nice cars and remodeling his house and goes into detail about all of the expensive things he is doing to his house. Anyhow, you get the picture and this is supposed to be a man of God. Of course, everyone has some good qualities so I pray that he is able to help others in spite of his inflated self esteem (which in reality is a need to boost low self esteem).
Another interesting character-- a country Protestant minister who lives near us (and who is very well liked by the people in his country church who seem to hold him in high esteem)—dresses like Mr. Cool when you see him in town. One night, my husband and I were in a restaurant and noticed this minister sitting with several of his church members. Their table was the loudest and it sounded like a bunch of kids at a fraternity party (the members were young adult and middle aged). When they got up to leave, we noticed the wild gestures of the minister as he joked with his friends, including crotch grabbing gestures. Somehow, that just doesn’t fit my image of a man of God. But again, apparently his church members like it. :confused:
I guess the bottom line is that Protestants must like the puffed up attitude or at least have come to expect it. They also seem to like showmanship in the pulpit. Being a good Christian is supposed to equal being “blessed” with material things and good fortune so the preaching reflects it. But what more can we really expect from churches who have broken off from the one true church? They’re on their own so anything goes including the attitudes of the world. (Just look at how homosexual marriage is now becoming acceptable by Protestant denominations.)
Thank God for the Catholic Church! :clapping:


#3

[quote=Blanka]I have also noticed a lot of Protestant ministers who seem very arrogant. In many Protestant circles, being a minister is considered a prestigious position rather than a humble servant of God.

I work with a "self proclaimed’ minister (the kind who say that God called them to preach so begin preaching without feeling the need to actually attend a seminary). It’s amazing how many people hold him in high esteem as though he is a celebrity. I see another side of him…not to be judgmental…but he is extremely arrogant and seems to need continual praise. He comes to work and makes sure we notice his designer clothing and feels neglected if we don’t praise the nice outfit he is wearing. His feelings are easily hurt if you say the wrong thing to him so it’s like pins and needles working with him. Of course, if I need him to do something, I can tell him that because he is so good at the task I would like him to do it. That usually works. He also continually talks about having nice cars and remodeling his house and goes into detail about all of the expensive things he is doing to his house. Anyhow, you get the picture and this is supposed to be a man of God. Of course, everyone has some good qualities so I pray that he is able to help others in spite of his inflated self esteem (which in reality is a need to boost low self esteem).
Another interesting character-- a country Protestant minister who lives near us (and who is very well liked by the people in his country church who seem to hold him in high esteem)—dresses like Mr. Cool when you see him in town. One night, my husband and I were in a restaurant and noticed this minister sitting with several of his church members. Their table was the loudest and it sounded like a bunch of kids at a fraternity party (the members were young adult and middle aged). When they got up to leave, we noticed the wild gestures of the minister as he joked with his friends, including crotch grabbing gestures. Somehow, that just doesn’t fit my image of a man of God. But again, apparently his church members like it. :confused:
I guess the bottom line is that Protestants must like the puffed up attitude or at least have come to expect it. They also seem to like showmanship in the pulpit. Being a good Christian is supposed to equal being “blessed” with material things and good fortune so the preaching reflects it. But what more can we really expect from churches who have broken off from the one true church? They’re on their own so anything goes including the attitudes of the world. (Just look at how homosexual marriage is now becoming acceptable by Protestant denominations.)
Thank God for the Catholic Church! :clapping:
[/quote]

Can you imagine Mother Teresa acting like these guys?


#4

I have thought the same thing. Not only do many Protestant preachers act in a prideful manner, I find some preachers to have something of a “cult of personality”. Charles Stanley is a Baptist preacher who comes to mind. I’ve seen posters here contrast his style of presentation to the homilies at Mass. It has been posted here by several Protestants that the Catholic Mass is boring and by contrast Charles Stanley is exciting. The people who find him to be a great speaker are missing the point. The messenger should fade into the background of the message. Is one is going to Church to hear the person speak about Christ instead of going to be with Christ? I prefer the latter.


#5

I know a local Protestant pastor who doesn’t really fit the bill of an overly self-centered man. To me, he seems to be relatively humble, so he may be an exception to the rule. However, my problem with Protestant services in general is that they are specifically pastor-centered. They have to be by their very makeup. They say it’s about the “message,” but who’s message? What it really boils down to is the fact that it really is about them, even if they say it isn’t. One person who comes to my mind when I think of someone who is completely high on himself is Joel Osteen.

JU


#6

wow, we are really making some broad judgements here. my mother always said, “if you can’t say something nice…” well, you know the rest. this thread seems to be really negative. not a great way to “convict” others of their pride.


#7

While this may be true (and some who have big houses, cars, nice clothes and say it’s Gods blessing on them) we can’t say its just Protestant preachers, so let’s not make broad judgments. I know of a young priest in my city who takes pride in that young girls say he is so handsome, drives a convertible, wearing dark glasses, collar open and likes to look “cool” and wants to be accepted by all. He used to give communion to everybody, even non-catholics(I pointed this out to him once but claims he does not do it anymore) and likes to celebrate mass for the group Destiny so gays like him. He waters down homilies to make everyone "feel good"
I happen know this Baptist Minister who works for a Hospice (I do volunteer work with this hospice) and he is very, very humble and actually knows more about the Catholic Church than many Catholics. He is always concerned that a Catholic patron is visited by a priest to make sure he/she has received the Sacraments. He tells Catholic volunteers what they need to do. I actually thought he was Catholic when I first met him.
Great guy…


#8

It really doesn’t have to be a negative threadl; rather it could be used to bring forth and discuss some generalities regarding the Protestant mode of worship. Yes, the service is pastor-centered, especially in the black churches, and the congregation will definitely let the pastor know if he “delivered.” On the other hand, if he does not, then many in the congregation will simply find someone who does. Moreover, a well dresses pastor attracts many well-to-do members who view the pastor as a reflection of themselves. The pastor has to dress sharp and perform well, and I use that word “perform” in the broad sense. But he does have to satisfy the congregation. Now when you think about that, that should not have to be the case. It should not ever be about the pastor, but because there is no sacrifice, because there is no priest confecting the Eucharist, you have a manmade substitute, which, to no one’s surprise, focuses on man, and the man happens to be the pastor. He becomes the focal point,and he becomes the performer, and his performance has to fit the whims of his particular congregation, so the whole dynamic becomes very circular. The focus on the pastor can cause one to become prideful in contrast to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass which transcends any particular priest. If the Mass is conducted the way it should be, then the priest should really be interchangeable. If the Mass were conducted in Latin with the priest facing the altar, leading the congregation in the sacrifice, it theoretically makes no difference which priest it is because his role is superseded by the miracle which takes place on the altar. Protestants have no supernatural action which takes place at their service, so the minds of he congretation are focused elsewhere, on the pastor, which can lead to occasions of pride. Pointing this out is not negative, but what it does do it point out the inevitable extensions of a Protestant worldview which focuses on the self as the determinant of what is true and what is not. The Protestant service is devoid of an Incarnational worldwiew, but instead focuses on the coming together of the community under under the preaching of the pastor. Notice that many liberal Catholic parishes are attempting to emulate this Protestant style of worship, but even though the Mass is watered down, the sheer magnitude of what is occurring on the altar prevents the priest from becoming the star of the show.


#9

Possibly the people we see on tv are just more theatrically-minded and need to raise money to support their tv ministry so they tend to be more flamboyant to 'keep ‘em watching’? I don’t know.

I’ve been around quite a few Protestant ministers and the majority of them seem to be very humble and think of themselves as servants. Just like most priests I’ve encountered. But I’ve also known a few priests who say Mass as if they themselves have to muster up ‘power’ during the consecration.


#10

Drive by any protestant church and read the “billboard”. Always the pastor’s name is on it.
Read the ads for Sunday services for any protestant church listed in the Saturday papers; always at least the preacher’s name and usually a photo.
Drive by a Catholic Church and see the Mass times listed on the “billboard”, if there even is a “billboard”.

Pretty much says it all.


#11

A few thought come to mind…

  1. Based on attraction rather than promotion…
    I believe that each one of us are walking bilboards. If I knew nothing of the different faiths and I was looking for a church to belong to I would look at the people, would I want to be like them? If the answer is no, I would stay away from the church.
  2. My favorite saying to people that tell me everything that is wrong with my church… “You know, there is something fundamentally wrong with a church that bases their doctrine on what they think is wrong with another church.” I think I would rather attend a church that does not use the flaws of another church to determine what they do or don’t believe in.
  3. Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins is it not? If you wake in the morning and are humbled to prayer by the beauty of a sunrise, your my kinda peeps. Same thing goes for sunsets, thunderstorms, snowy blankets that shine from the trees and the sound of voices raised in praise for our Savior.

#12

I’m beginning to understand how some Catholics have felt in being demonized and feeling bigotry. While I don’t believe it’s intentional… there are a lot of mistruths and “generalizations” here that are simply untrue.

[quote=cecelia]It really doesn’t have to be a negative threadl; rather it could be used to bring forth and discuss some generalities regarding the Protestant mode of worship. Yes, the service is pastor-centered, especially in the black churches, and the congregation will definitely let the pastor know if he “delivered.” On the other hand, if he does not, then many in the congregation will simply find someone who does. Moreover, a well dresses pastor attracts many well-to-do members who view the pastor as a reflection of themselves. The pastor has to dress sharp and perform well, and I use that word “perform” in the broad sense. But he does have to satisfy the congregation.
[/quote]

I can only speak from a United Methodist/Anglican perspective… but worship is not pastor-centered; it is Word and Table centered. Liturgy is the “work of the people.” In my work as a pastor, I’m not expected to deliver; I’m expected to be pastor, priest, and prophet, and simply one of many who does the work of ministry, but set apart for Word, Sacrament, and Order. If I “performed”, my bishop would probably put me on leave of absence. Since I vest, no one during worship has any idea what I’m wearing; it’s not about me, it’s about Christ.

[quote=cecelia]It should not ever be about the pastor, but because there is no sacrifice, because there is no priest confecting the Eucharist, you have a manmade substitute, which, to no one’s surprise, focuses on man, and the man happens to be the pastor. He becomes the focal point,and he becomes the performer, and his performance has to fit the whims of his particular congregation, so the whole dynamic becomes very circular. The focus on the pastor can cause one to become prideful in contrast to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass which transcends any particular priest.
[/quote]

You may not recognize my ordination as valid… that is the right of your communion. But the communion into which I was ordained DOES, and moreover, fully expects the focus of ministry and worship to be on Christ and NOT me. When I celebrate the Eucharist, I am representing Christ, not myself - and the focal point is Christ, not me. It is that same focus that takes place during the sermon/homily - the focus is on Christ the Word, not the preacher. There is certainly some prideful preaching going on… but as someone said above, there are also some prideful Catholic priests in this world (one Catholic priest in a town I once lived was called “Father Hollywood” instead of his given name).

[quote=Cecelia]Pointing this out is not negative, but what it does do it point out the inevitable extensions of a Protestant worldview which focuses on the self as the determinant of what is true and what is not. The Protestant service is devoid of an Incarnational worldwiew, but instead focuses on the coming together of the community under under the preaching of the pastor.
[/quote]

If that’s not a negative and a prejudicial (if not bigoted) statement, I don’t know what is. To say that a Protestant service is devoid of an incarnational worldview is tantamount to spitting on Protestant Christians and their worship.

[quote=Cecelia]If the Mass is conducted the way it should be, then the priest should really be interchangeable. If the Mass were conducted in Latin with the priest facing the altar, leading the congregation in the sacrifice, it theoretically makes no difference which priest it is because his role is superseded by the miracle which takes place on the altar.
[/quote]

I may be mistaken… but I believe the Catholic Church disagrees with you in practice and doctrine on this matter. In short: Christ doesn’t turn His back on His people.

Protestants have no supernatural action which takes place at their service, so the minds of he congretation are focused elsewhere, on the pastor, which can lead to occasions of pride.

In the opinion of you and Catholic Church. However, my communion disagrees. Besides God’s action in baptism (which, I believe the Catholic Church DOES recognize), God is present in the Word and at the Table. God’s Mystery and “supernatural” presence are there… so your claim doesn’t have much merit, except in your own eyes.

Cecelia, I would suggest that you reevaluate your definitions of “negative.”

Pax,

O+


#13

While this certainly isn’t true for ALL protestants (I think the Catholic mind likes to over-generalize things, I know I do :o ) but some preachers do have a “cult of personality”, and some protestants have a case of “pope-envy” and need that leader to follow.

We follow our Pope on the authority of Christ, they follow their little popes on how interesting they are or how fun and exiting their services are. :stuck_out_tongue:


#14

[quote=Blanka]II work with a "self proclaimed’ minister (the kind who say that God called them to preach so begin preaching without feeling the need to actually attend a seminary). It’s amazing how many people hold him in high esteem as though he is a celebrity. I see another side of him…not to be judgmental…but he is extremely arrogant and seems to need continual praise
[/quote]

this gentleman sounds like he has a personal problem with self-esteem, but it is hardly fair to categorize all Protestant clergy by a few examples of arrogant behavior. We would hardly like to hear a blanket judgement of all Catholic priests based on the scandalous behavior of 1 percent who have problems. I listen to Christian radio a lot at night because there is very little English language stuff on the radio, and most are excellent. I deal with several local Protestant clergy through youth ministry work and have not observed any of the type of behavior you describe.


#15

Haven’t read everyone’s response, but I know exactly what you may be talking about…

Ever wonder why in *most *protestant churches (exception that I am aware of…Episcopal, Presbyterian and Methodist)…the “preacher” is in the center…the center of attention?

I think this may be why you feel that they are prideful…that’s my feelings.


#16

Reminder to all:

Generalizations and stereotyping are dangerous practices that encourage pridefulness on the part of the one engaging in them and are prone to become an avenue for uncharitable commentary and judgementalism.

Despite the intervention of several members who have attempted to point out the unfairness of categorizing non-Catholic clergy as a class rather than seeing them as individuals, the thread has continued to foster an egalitarian viewpoint that is based neither in theology nor on fact, but on preconcieved and unfounded personal perceptions. It appears to have no real purpose other than to put down, as a group, non-Catholic clergy.

The thread is closed.

Thanks to all who participated.

Joe


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