Non-catholic Upstart Asks


#1

Why the dissention? I am reading Karl Keating’s NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH and he seems to take more shots from Priests and other catholics than I thought possible. What is the deal? If I leave the apparent 30K denominations among protestants only to find that there are 1 billion different individual “denominations” among individual catholics??? Have I been under the misunderstanding that Authority meant something. Authority is the main characteristic that I found attractive and a pulling point of the Church. Help me to get over this! I realize that the CALL TO ACTION crowd is a vocal minority, but what about the rank and file?


#2

as a former baptist, with a degree in baptist theology, and having converted to catholicism 6 years ago this easter, i think i can tell you a little about the difference.

in the protestant churches, you have thousands (you could say millions) of different theologies being taught by the churches. in other words, first baptist church, springfield (a little simpsons wink) might teach that dancing is evil, while central baptist church, springfield might say that it’s ok. the OFFICIAL CHURCH TEACHING of each church is different.

with the catholic church, you don’t have this nonsense. you DO have the authority that you’re talking about. the church definitively says ‘Christ is God’ and ‘the eucharist is Jesus present with us’ and ‘every catholic must go to confession at least once per year’. and this is official church teaching, and is the same no matter what catholic church you go to in the entire world.

sure, you’ll have people, even priests, who argue about things. they might even argue about what the church officially teaches. but it doesn’t change that the church officially teaches it - it only means that they dissent from that teaching.

does that made sense? feel free to ask probing questions.


#3

Do not be conserned. The Roman Catholic Church is directed, governed and lead by the Heiriachy in Rome. Yes, some Bishops try to skirt the edges of papal directives.

The Church has one leader, the Pope and hius Magesterium. Individuals can say anything they want to say, some Catholics can be “:bad”: Catholics BUT it is Rome that guides the Church.


#4

and, more importantly, it is Christ who guides the church. :wink:


#5

Hello, AlmostCatholic,

I’m probably not the one to address your concern,
but I’ll try anyway.

In 1960 I was 16 years old. The Church was a
fairly peaceful place, with a settled liturgy, large
numbers of people at Sunday Mass…they needed
5 ushers to find seats for people on most of the
Sunday morning masses. There was great respect
for both the bishop and the clergy, there were
many Catholic grade and high schools, passing
along the faith to the children known as the
Baby Boom.

Fast forward 10 years, to 1970.
The country as a whole went through a dizzying
upheavel, socially, during that 10 years.
“Don’t trust anyone over 30” was heard in the
land; authority in any form was questioned…
partly due to the war in Vietnam etc.

At the same time, the Church insisted that
artificial birth control was not to be practiced
by Catholics. An uproar over that issue ensued.

Now here’s where it gets really messy. At the
same time that all of this was going on, the
members of the Church experienced changes
in the Mass that some had lived with for decades.
More uproar, to a certain extent, and some sense
of disorientation among some Church members.

Catholic schools were closed for lack of nuns to
staff them. Some remained open at great financial
cost to a parish, because lay people had to be
paid to teach.

Now fast forward another 35 years!

What you are seeing and hearing is the result
of 45 years worth of…change. Media bashing of
Christianity, especially Catholicism. Entertainment that
often ignores the existence of religion, or ridicules faith.

Ah, for the good old days in the 1940’s when Bing
Crosby and Barry Fitzgerald played roles emphasizing
the Catholic faith and the beauty of it.

AlmostCatholic, the Church is in stormy seas,
I think. It’s understandable to feel like the
Apostles in the boat in the storm. But the bark
of Peter, the Church, has withstood storms worse
than this.
In the Scriptures the idea of a “remnant” is found.
A remnant means a smaller group that will survive
whatever upheavel that occurs in the life of faith.
When Jesus wills, He can say: Be calm! as He
did on the lake.
The Holy Spirit is always with the Church. And
priests and bishops and laity alike can poke at
the Church in their lifetime, but it will stay afloat.

I’m hopeful that others more faithful than I will
respond to your post, as I am not in a position
to speak as a Roman Catholic.

God bless you, AlmostCatholic,
reen12

I pray to the God of Israel and hope that Jesus
is the Messiah.


#6

AlmostCatholic, you can’t put over 1 billion eggs in the same basket without at least a few eggs getting cracked.

Likewise, it is impossible to put over 1 billion people in a single denomination without some dissent naturally occuring. But it is precisely because the church stays unified, in spite of its diversity, that a certain validity is shown. Take a few moments to ponder the history of the Catholic Church. Look at its vices and virtues, sinners and saints, successes and failures and you will realize that if this church was not guided by a higher power, if it were a man-made religious fraternal society, it certainly would have crashed and burned a number of times already.

Compare that to the Protestants who, when one of them dissents, he usually just leaves and creates a new “True” church of Jesus.

In the late 1600s, about 150 years after the reformation started, Bishop Jacques Bossuet decided to write a book called “The History of the Variations of the Protestant Churches.” He succeeded, but his finished work filled four volumes! And that was over 300 years ago!

If the authority, and divine guidance, of the Catholic Church cannot be seen in its universality and endurance, where else can it be found?

Thal59


#7

As other people say, the Church teaches one truth, the truth, some people don’t accept all of it all the time but you do have the unity of doctrine. The Church is made up of sinners and a few saints.
In the denominations, I once went to Calvary Chapel, you have a loose doctrine that people argue over and eventually people go and start another when it doesn’t suit them. In the case of Calvary Chapel, I think it was Vineyard which came out of them.

Here in the Church you have an authority, when I went to Bible study today there was a small disagreement. We looked over to the Catechism and found the answer and it was solved. It actually explained it a lot better than we could and resolved the issue.
Very easy in this case, some cases you might need to go see a priest, or even higher up, but you do have an authority. You don’t just have someone’s opinion.


#8

another point that should be indicated within the Catholic Church is the lack of knowledge of the parishioners… my parents generation, generally speaking (i am 19), followed the good old rule that if you went to church every sunday, that was good enough… and due to the failing numbers of priests, it is hard for them to try and correctly inform the people about the truth, which is why you see such dissentment within the church… the people just plain dont konw… but do not be worried, because my generation is sick of not knowing anymore… and we are starting to ask questions, and starting to learn, and with the information superhiway of the internet, we are growing at a fast pace… the Catholic church will soon be facing a great restoration! and one that will not end with 50000 more denominations splitting off
God Bless You and Your Quest For The Truth, and The Fullness of The Catholic Church
James


#9

[quote=Thal59]AlmostCatholic, you can’t put over 1 billion eggs in the same basket without at least a few eggs getting cracked.
Thal59
[/quote]

:rotfl: cracked eggs…i like that.


#10

Horray, James!!!

I was thrilled with your saying:

“… but do not be worried, because my generation is sick of not knowing anymore…” quote jax8686

The internet is often bashed, but the research that can
be done is amazing.
You’ve lifted the heart of someone 3 times your
age.
God bless you,
reen12

I pray to the God of Israel and hope that Jesus
is the Messiah.


#11

[quote=Almost Catholic]Why the dissention? I am reading Karl Keating’s NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH and he seems to take more shots from Priests and other catholics than I thought possible. What is the deal? If I leave the apparent 30K denominations among protestants only to find that there are 1 billion different individual “denominations” among individual catholics??? Have I been under the misunderstanding that Authority meant something. Authority is the main characteristic that I found attractive and a pulling point of the Church. Help me to get over this! I realize that the CALL TO ACTION crowd is a vocal minority, but what about the rank and file?
[/quote]

Hello Almost Catholic-

In my humble opinion, dissention is human nature. We concentrate on differences.

We as Catholics are called upon to follow the Church’s teachings. This is the difficult part. This is the part that requires faith.

It is hard for us to deny our human desires and submit to devinely inspired human authority on Earth.

Maybe our Earthly lives are training for eternity and the Authority we will submit to when we get there.

What if there is no God? What if all this self denial was a waste?

I hope you continue your journey to Rome.


#12

[quote=jeffreedy789]as a former baptist, with a degree in baptist theology, and having converted to catholicism 6 years ago this easter, i think i can tell you a little about the difference.

in the protestant churches, you have thousands (you could say millions) of different theologies being taught by the churches. in other words, first baptist church, springfield (a little simpsons wink) might teach that dancing is evil, while central baptist church, springfield might say that it’s ok. the OFFICIAL CHURCH TEACHING of each church is different.

with the catholic church, you don’t have this nonsense. you DO have the authority that you’re talking about. the church definitively says ‘Christ is God’ and ‘the eucharist is Jesus present with us’ and ‘every catholic must go to confession at least once per year’. and this is official church teaching, and is the same no matter what catholic church you go to in the entire world.

sure, you’ll have people, even priests, who argue about things. they might even argue about what the church officially teaches. but it doesn’t change that the church officially teaches it - it only means that they dissent from that teaching.

does that made sense? feel free to ask probing questions.
[/quote]

I like to give the example of lawyers. No lawyer has the right to say what the law is.He can offer an argument in favor of his interpretation of law, but in the end he must submit to the judgement of the court,if not that court than to a higher one.


#13

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