Non-Catholic view of Apparitions, Incorruptibles, Miraculous Healings, etc.


#1

Just got through reading an incredible book, the author of which investigated various miraculous events; Eucharistic miracles, bleeding statues, Our Lady of Guadalupe and others. My purpose here is not to dwell on the book. It just struck me that Catholic history is absolutely bursting at the seams with miraculous events which are signs of God’s presence and activity within the Catholic Church.

These are events that have been investigated thoroughly and found beyond explanation in the natural world. Some, such as the Miracle at Fatima, were witnessed by over 70,000 people. Modern science has studied the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe and determined that it is not a painting, no pigment is present in the fiber. In fact the image hovers 0.032 mm above the fiber. The numbers of documented miraculous healings at Lourdes is famous. We have saints who’s bodies have never decomposed, after hundreds of years.

My question is simply; what do non-Catholics think about all of this? Does it influence your faith in any way? Does it say anything about the Catholic Church in your view? Do you think it is all a bunch of bunk? I realize that miracles happen outside of the Catholic Church as well, but not even close in number and magnitude to those documented by the Catholic Church.

Thanks in advance.

Steve


#2

[quote="SteveVH, post:1, topic:306345"]

My question is simply; what do non-Catholics think about all of this?

Does it influence your faith in any way?

Does it say anything about the Catholic Church in your view?

Do you think it is all a bunch of bunk? I realize that miracles happen outside of the Catholic Church as well, but not even close in number and magnitude to those documented by the Catholic Church.

Thanks in advance.

Steve

[/quote]

Hi Steve. In order:

I generally don't ponder on it.

Not really, though nothing is impossible for God.

No.

No.

Jon


#3

[quote="JonNC, post:2, topic:306345"]
Hi Steve. In order:

I generally don't ponder on it.

Not really, though nothing is impossible for God.

No.

No.

Jon

[/quote]

Thanks for your honest opnion. It is pretty much what I thought would be the general response. But this is the reason for the thread. Why do these incredible events just go unnoticed by the great majority of non-Catholics (and many Catholics as well). Why the lack of interest? I mean if you saw on the news that 70,000 people witnessed the sun crashing to earth and were terrified and that when it started raining that no one got wet, would that peak your interest?


#4

[quote="SteveVH, post:1, topic:306345"]
Just got through reading an incredible book, the author of which investigated various miraculous events; Eucharistic miracles, bleeding statues, Our Lady of Guadalupe and others. My purpose here is not to dwell on the book. It just struck me that Catholic history is absolutely bursting at the seams with miraculous events which are signs of God’s presence and activity within the Catholic Church.

These are events that have been investigated thoroughly and found beyond explanation in the natural world. Some, such as the Miracle at Fatima, were witnessed by over 70,000 people. Modern science has studied the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe and determined that it is not a painting, no pigment is present in the fiber. In fact the image hovers 0.032 mm above the fiber. The numbers of documented miraculous healings at Lourdes is famous. We have saints who’s bodies have never decomposed, after hundreds of years.

My question is simply; what do non-Catholics think about all of this? Does it influence your faith in any way? Does it say anything about the Catholic Church in your view? Do you think it is all a bunch of bunk? I realize that miracles happen outside of the Catholic Church as well, but not even close in number and magnitude to those documented by the Catholic Church.

Thanks in advance.

Steve

[/quote]

For non-Catholics, these wonders are simply a push in the right direction or a confirmation on the truth of the faith.

For Catholics, including myself, these wonders should be a confirmation of what we already know; that God is constantly guiding the Church in and to all truth.

I don't know what to say to the fact that the world isn't being constantly rocked by the fact that the Catholic Church is the only Church with long-standing and consistent miracles.
Perhaps it says something of the darkening of our intellects.
Perhaps it says something of the close-mindedness of the world.
Perhaps it says something of the grasp Satan has on societies worldwide.
Perhaps it says something of the Church itself, which may or may not be effectively evangelizing.

This is definitely a good thing to explore into and to let it exhort us to greater zeal in the faith.

God Bless!


#5

[quote="SteveVH, post:3, topic:306345"]
Thanks for your honest opnion. It is pretty much what I thought would be the general response. But this is the reason for the thread. Why do these incredible events just go unnoticed by the great majority of non-Catholics (and many Catholics as well). Why the lack of interest? I mean if you saw on the news that 70,000 people witnessed the sun crashing to earth and were terrified and that when it started raining that no one got wet, would that peak your interest?

[/quote]

Well, I think the response by some other protestant would be... well, never mind. :D

But I understand your frustration by this, though I really don't have a good answer to your question. My understanding is that Eucharistic miracles are a response to the failing faith in the real presence of a priest, etc. Perhaps we should take it as a good sign. :signofcross:

Jon


#6

If I may quote Christian comedian Brad Stein:" Catholics see Mary everywhere. Protestants see the devil everywhere." I have had the unfortunate encounter with Ol' Scratch. I was scared to death. So, I know he's real, and out there.


#7

[quote="dshix, post:4, topic:306345"]
For non-Catholics, these wonders are simply a push in the right direction or a confirmation on the truth of the faith.

For Catholics, including myself, these wonders should be a confirmation of what we already know; that God is constantly guiding the Church in and to all truth.

I don't know what to say to the fact that the world isn't being constantly rocked by the fact that the Catholic Church is the only Church with long-standing and consistent miracles.
Perhaps it says something of the darkening of our intellects.
Perhaps it says something of the close-mindedness of the world.
Perhaps it says something of the grasp Satan has on societies worldwide.
Perhaps it says something of the Church itself, which may or may not be effectively evangelizing.

This is definitely a good thing to explore into and to let it exhort us to greater zeal in the faith.

God Bless!

[/quote]

Thanks for the great post. You bring up some great possibilities as to why these divine events are largely ignored by the world at large. I'm sure that each of those you listed has a part to play.

Thanks again and God bless you as well.


#8

I have a bud who manages to be Protestant and a new-ager at the same time. He ignores Catholic miracle while at the same time he beleives in ufos aliens, big foot ,fairies and ghosts!


#9

[quote="andrewstx, post:8, topic:306345"]
I have a bud who manages to be Protestant and a new-ager at the same time. He ignores Catholic miracle while at the same time he beleives in ufos aliens, big foot ,fairies and ghosts!

[/quote]

I want to believe in bigfoot, but, alas, I can't. What a beautiful thing if he was real.

I'm not sure about all the miracles either.


#10

[quote="JonNC, post:5, topic:306345"]
Well, I think the response by some other protestant would be... well, never mind. :D

But I understand your frustration by this, though I really don't have a good answer to your question. My understanding is that Eucharistic miracles are a response to the failing faith in the real presence of a priest, etc. Perhaps we should take it as a good sign. :signofcross:

Jon

[/quote]

You're a true optomist. You're correct that one of the most famous Eucharistic miracle's happened due to the lack of faith by the priest during the concecration. But there are many others as well. One fairly recent Eucharisitc miracle happened in Venezuela. A worker who was cleaning out a room in a church found a host laying in an old candle holder, covered with dust. She gave it to the priest. Only one of two things can be done with the host in this situation. It must either be consumed or placed in a sacrarium or concecrated ground. Because of the condition of the host, the priest placed it in a dish of water in order for it to dissolve and be poured into the sacrarium. It never disolved and three years later became flesh, heart tissue, specifically. It remains for all to see.


#11

[quote="batman1973, post:6, topic:306345"]
If I may quote Christian comedian Brad Stein:" Catholics see Mary everywhere. Protestants see the devil everywhere." I have had the unfortunate encounter with Ol' Scratch. I was scared to death. So, I know he's real, and out there.

[/quote]

Yes, I've seen the potato chip with the face of Mary type things. It makes it very easy to joke about. But what do you think of the real deal? Why does God make himself known in this way and why do people seem to want to ignore it?


#12

[quote="andrewstx, post:8, topic:306345"]
I have a bud who manages to be Protestant and a new-ager at the same time. He ignores Catholic miracle while at the same time he beleives in ufos aliens, big foot ,fairies and ghosts!

[/quote]

I rest my case. Why do you think that is?


#13

[quote="JHow, post:9, topic:306345"]
I want to believe in bigfoot, but, alas, I can't. What a beautiful thing if he was real.

[/quote]

Why can't you? Has anyone proven they don't exist? :D

[quote="JHow, post:9, topic:306345"]
I'm not sure about all the miracles either.

[/quote]

What aren't you sure about?


#14

If I may ask, what is the title of the book?


#15

[quote="NovusAugustus, post:14, topic:306345"]
If I may ask, what is the title of the book?

[/quote]

"Reason To Believe", by Ron Tesoriero. Amazing. Its a little pricey because its still in hard back, but well worth it. One of those you'll want to pass around. But there are many great books out there that document the rich history of miraculous events in the Catholic Church.


#16

[quote="batman1973, post:6, topic:306345"]
If I may quote Christian comedian Brad Stein:" Catholics see Mary everywhere. Protestants see the devil everywhere."

[/quote]

This pretty much sums up the answer. The Anti-Catholic fundamentalists that I've met see Catholic miracles as "demonic"


#17

[quote="SteveVH, post:12, topic:306345"]
I rest my case. Why do you think that is?

[/quote]

Why? I think it's becuase new age is hip and "cool", while Catholic miracles come across to him as "old fashioned".


#18

I think of the miracles as God's reassuring signs to us. I haven't so much thought of what they say about the Church, as what they say about Him.


#19

TAN publishers has a number of books on Eucharistic Miracles, Incoruptables and simulars] subjects.

I have been interested in the incorruptables since I read SONG OF BERNADETTE when I was just 14 yo.


#20

[quote="batman1973, post:6, topic:306345"]
If I may quote Christian comedian Brad Stein:" Catholics see Mary everywhere. Protestants see the devil everywhere." I have had the unfortunate encounter with Ol' Scratch. I was scared to death. So, I know he's real, and out there.

[/quote]

We see enough of the Devil in this world. Let's hope for more appearances of the Blessed Virgin.

Jon


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