Non-Christian Proof - Jesus was crucified!


#1

There have been some claims made by Muslims on this board that Jesus was not crucified. However, they haven’t really substantiated these claims.

Here is some evidence by NON Christians which proves Jesus was executed by the Romans in Palestine:

In Rome, in the year 93, Josephus published his lengthy history of the Jews. While discussing the period in which the Jews of Judaea were governed by the Roman procurator Pontius Pilate, Josephus included the following account:

About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.

Jewish Antiquities, 18.3.3 §63

The Roman historian Tacticus wrote concerning The Great Fire of Rome, in book 15, chapter 44 of his Annals:

Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.

If anyone else knows of any other sources, could you please post them.


#2

Not so much a ‘source’ but a discussion with a pagan mizmaxx, on another forum here and here and :rolleyes: here

We did discuss sources there (before I got banned)


#3

There are plenty of historical, secular accounts of Jesus’ crucifixion, and it is false and the work of the devil in others to claim that Jesus lived and died in India later, not that I’m against India or anything like that, but that just did not happen.

Jesus is the way, he did not lie, whatever denomination of Christian you are, or whatever religion you are, Jesus died on the cross for us, that’s fundamental.


#4

JewishEncyclopedia.com has an interesting read on this topic. There seems to be no argument that a man named Jesus was crucified.

jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=254&letter=J&search=jesus


#5

And I said secular accounts.

Jewish is religious


#6

Eitherways I viewed it and this is in the first paragraph:

*Founder of Christianity; born at Nazareth about 2 B.C. (according to Luke iii. 23); executed at Jerusalem 14th of Nisan, 3789 (March or April, 29 C.E.). *

Wasn’t his execution due to blasphemy, and at the time they crucified plenty of people, and his ‘sin of blasphemy’ qualified. Well at least it states that he was executed.


#7

It will be interesting to see what some of the regular crucifixion deniers on this site will have to say in reply to this.


#8

From what I know, those who say Jesus wasn’t crucified aren’t saying the accounts are completely false – they say somebody took his place on the cross. Somebody still got it, it just wasn’t the person everyone thought it was.


#9

That is sad that there are people who believe such a thing.


#10

You’re right, Nick (just above). I’ve seem that on Islamic Web sites.

Muslims do believe a crucifixion took place. However, they don’t believe it was Jesus, but rather somebody else whom God made look like Jesus. All this to spare the life of Jesus.

(Denying the atoning sacrifice of Jesus only serves the Devil, because it makes it easier for him to spin his tricks.)

Some people are so dumb it makes them arrogant.

(I can’t quite figure out what Ahmadi’s are all about. They seem like another strange mob trying to cover up the deficiencies of Islam.)


#11

I realise this thread is about 'non-Christian proof Christ was crucified, but I do feel I must comment on the Koran account [which I have read] in the light of all four Gospels.

The very arguements the Koran puts forward is absolutely refuted by ALL FOUR Gospels. The Koran account is not an account as such but a 'speculation of what MIGHT have happened.

Working for the legal system can confirm that ‘speculation’ is worth absolutely ‘nothing’. :stuck_out_tongue: What is needed is solid evidence.

The Gospels provide Hard-hitting evidence and irrefutable eye-witness testimony from several witnesses including ALL key players. The case for ‘defence of the Truth’ is so solid, it is ‘Proven absolute!’


#12

For me, the humanity of distress of the Sandhedrin policeman whose ear Peter cut off, whom Jesus healed, who was converted on the spot and became a Follower of Christ, and later canonised by His Church. That is also eye-witness testimony.

You have your miracle of proof, what more do you want! :thumbsup:


#13

this contradicts the bible. The bible says they werent called Christians until Antioch. That was well after Jesus.

I dont think that without the Bible you can prove the crucifixion of Jesus. No historical records really describe he event it in detail.


#14

sorry. I was talking about this qoute "In Rome, in the year 93, Josephus published his lengthy history of the Jews. While discussing the period in which the Jews of Judaea were governed by the Roman procurator Pontius Pilate, Josephus included the following account:

About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.

Jewish Antiquities, 18.3.3 §63"


#15

Amen

There was numerous pagan Roman Diarists [whose names I can no longer recall] who wrote about any unsual events. The effects of Christ and His teachings came to their attention. I did not quote them as I can no longer recall their names…age! :rolleyes:


#16

Bettenson, Henry, Documents of the Christian Church

quotes all the extra biblical evidence for Jesus.

F. F. Bruce also had Christian origins outside the New testament book too.


#17

Things is that beyond the Bible there is no credible evidence of the crucifixion during the same years leading up to and at the event itself. There certainly is no official Roman recordings of the event.

However, there is ample evidence if you count information written years after by people influenced by early Christianity and in the case of Josephus it is commonly accepted among religious and secular scholars that the two passages in his recordings were written in much later than his writings themselves.


#18

To those who have read some gnostic teachings about the crucifixion can clearly see that the Quran is simply incorporating the same teaching :slight_smile: no need to go fetch historical documents about the crufixion; just read what gnostics wrote and you’ll find it is the same as in the Quran.


#19

Hi Scarecrow,

I have seen on a different Web sites, that a report from Pontius Pilate, Governor of Judea, was sent to Tiberius Ceasar in Rome regarding the crucifixion of Jesus.

Apprently, this report is available in a British museam somewhere; But I don’t know the authenticity of this report.

More info:
geocentricity.com/ba1/no84/crucifixn.html
pseudepigrapha.com/LostBooks/lettersHerodPilate.htm
comparative-religion.com/christianity/apocrypha/new-testament-apocrypha/8/3.php


#20

Probably like the other poster I assumed you meant non-Christian sources because that’s what you wrote in the thread title: Non-Christian Proof!!!


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