Non-Christians obtaining Heaven?


#21

Yes it does help.
You make a good point that if I know something is true, I’m obligated to follow it.
In my example, I know Jesus is worthy of respect so I’d be morally responsible if I rejected Him anyways (perhaps due to pride or appearances to others, etc).
I should also not ignore these experiences about Christ. I should probably talk to a priest and see if I can pray during an adoration of the Host. Just a way to openly spend some time in the presence of Christ to aid my discernment.
I want to follow the truth, whatever that might be.


#22

To piggyback on this, I’ll point out that there is a school of thought in Christian eschatology that believes the 144,000 described in Revelation are the 12 tribes of Israel and represents the Jewish people as a whole. Not that all Jews will be saved but at least that it shows that God has a special place in His heart for the Jews.

After all,

“Salvation is from the Jews!”


#23

My Brother under God,

I am truly grateful for your POST to me; thank you.

I did a bit of research on your Bahai religion.

Because TRUTH can only be singular per defined issue, and because Life is truly The GOD-TEST’ that is, in Truth each of us is to seek GOD, the One TRUE God, not “his/ my god”, BUT God singular.

You believe in ONE “True” God

I love your faith position on the equality of humanity. That too is the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, all though, this is often not correctly understood.
Like the RCC, you have one supreme leader

You have by election a group of men as advisors [The Universal House of Justice]; comparable to the Catholic Magisterium which is staffed by appointment
.
We disagree on denying the right and acceptable of Nations and Governance, and equality of religions, which frankly is illogical as it has to deny TRUTH, which can be nothing other than singular per defined issue. [It denies that HAS TO BE just One TRUE God & Faith]

In Catholicism the term “Church” has several meanings: 1. Firstly it means all Catholics throughout the world 2.It mean just one set of faith beliefs 3. It is the building for Divine worship. So in MY context it meant belief in just ONE True God, faith and Church [where belief of that One True Faith is evidenced and practiced].

My friend, I would LOVE to discuss each of your concerns with you, but space here is SEVERELY restricted. PLEASE SEND ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE, FOR SOME REASON I AM UNABLE TO DO IT, but am able to reply to them.

I have copied and pasted your post, so we can discuss each of your points.

Thanks again for your POST and I look forward to our future discussions
.
Blessings, and be assured of my daily prayers for you

Patrick [PJM]


#24

Please READ Mt 10: 1-8

The 12 Tribes would easily exceed the 144. 000 which means ONLY [ A lot]:grinning:

God Bless you, and the Jews Do have a special place in GOD’s heart; after ALL he and the Apostles were JEWS themselves. But their rejection of Christ, was and is a rejection of the One TRUE faith of GOD, not good.

Patrick.


#25

FROM THE CATHOLIC CATECHISM

1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.

1782 Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. “He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters.”

1798 A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. Everyone must avail himself of the means to form his conscience.

So while we ARE to follow our conscience; we are FIRST to insure that in is Rightly and correctly and fully formed in complete unity with the Catholic Magisterium. AMEN

God Bless you,
Patrick


#26

How exactly does Matthew 10:1-8 have anything to do with the 144,000?

Rev 7:1-8 specifies that the 144,000 represents 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes. Clearly not every single person of twelve tribes. What’s your point?

There has been a reasonable school of thought which views the 144,000 as Jews, the people who were God’s original chosen. Not all Jews have rejected God the way the Pharisees did. Some may only be Jews through invincible ignorance, and thus would be Catholic if they were able to see it the right way.

-Owen Riley


#27

Surely ALL religions teach that theirs is the only way to salvation…


#28

It’s subtle BUT in Mt 10: 1-8

[1] And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity.
[2] The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb’edee, and John his brother;
[3] Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
[4] Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
[5] These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans,
[6] but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
[7] And preach as you go, saying, `The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’
[8] Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay.

Verse 1 Shows Christ passing on to His Jewish Apostoles some of HIS GODLY powers

Then go down to verses 5 to 8 and Christ COMMANDS that they go ONLY to the “house of Israel”

BOTH the indicate a Jewish preference:grin:

The 144,000 is NOT a real or to understand as number; It ONLY means a large group.

Dear friend your struggling with right understanding of the Bible which BTW, is a Catholic book.

Are you able to understand the teaching here:

2Peter 1: 19-21
And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20] Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. [21] For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but by the Holy Spirit

GBY

Patrick


#29

Patrick, I think you’re misunderstanding my position. I agree that the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation are not meant to be taken with an exact literal interpretation. I agree that it is just meant to be taken as a large number of believers, or the Church as a whole.

-Owen Riley


#30

That is GREAT news:grinning:

God Bless you

Patrick


#31

Not at all. Many teach precisely the opposite. For instance, take a look at Universalist Unitarians. Take a look at Protestants, who tend to make axiomatic the claim “in essentials, unity; in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things, charity” (commonly ascribed to Augustine, but not uttered by him).


#32

Right not all religions. Baha’i don’t believe only Baha’i are “saved”. Christains are followers of Jesus, a prophet/divine manifestation and His teachings offer divine grace.
I would personally say as Christains you subjectively experience some valid aspects of God, the objective Absolute. You participate in the new convenant and don’t need to join the Baha’i convenant.
I’m still a little fuzzy on my Baha’i theology. I’m a new Baha’i. But I do know Baha’i believe Christains go to heaven.


#33

Google Mystical Baptism. It is a nice philosophy of writer. I don’t think I saw an Imprimatur.
Romans 2:
12For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesu

The part that says those who behave in ways of the law
Show the work of the law in their hearts. God will judge the secrets of men(our hearts) through Christ Jesus.
Jesus knows our hearts. If they never heard of Jesus or were in the process of believing, Jesus will judge on their behavior in their hearts according to their knowledge.
Aborigines worshipped the SUN, b/c that’s the most powerful thing. The Holy Spirit gave them rules to live by in their inexperience. Good hearts=Heaven. Protestants reading Bible loving God. Committed to Jesus. Go to Heaven. Some different understandings of scripture aren’t sending us tho hell. The main dogmas must’ve believed. Our hearts must be pure.
In Christ’s love
Tweedlealice


#34

Thanks for the encouragement

God Bless you
Patrick


#35

For that matter, Catholics don’t believe that only Catholics are ‘saved’. (However, we do believe that the Catholic Church is the only means of salvation – through the grace that Christ provides through the Church – in the world. (It’s an interesting notion: it means that, even if you’re not a Catholic, nevertheless if you’re saved, it’s through God’s grace, given freely to the Catholic Church.)


#36

Absolutely RIGHT ON

God will as he MUST, make our final judgment based on what he HAs made possible for each of us to know, accept and know ; NOT, what for ANY reason we choose to ACCEPT TO PRACTICE AND LIVE

Continued Blessings
Patrick


#37

Agreed!

Godis final Judgment will be based on what HE has made POSSIBLE for each of us to Know live and accept

Continued Blessings,
Patrick


#38

Which conclusion is absolutely subjective and untrue. and incorrect. The equality of all faiths is a dream that in TRUTH cannot come true.

Those who attain heaven are those who in humility Know, Love ,serve and FULLY OBEY ALL of God’s Commandments, Covenants and Precepts; without innovative, easier invented ways that dictate to God how He must save them.

May GOD guide our path to His Truths,

Continued Prayers and Blessing my friend

Patrick … TRUTH can be only singular per defined ssue


#39

Judaism doesn’t just not believe that you have to be Jewish, it doesn’t believe anybody needs to be ‘saved’ in the Christian sense.


#40

Different factions of Judaism believe different things. HAISIDIC JEWS are very strict and intermarry. I’m sure they are selective. Some Jews don’t believe in angels, heaven or hell. That must be wrong. HMMM Atheist Jew. HAHA. Anyway, I know, some Jews feel they are only ones going to heaven. These accept RIGHTIOUS CHRISTIANS for conversion. Kabbalist are Mystical believers. Baptists have many factions, also. Most main stream religions have Pentecostal elements.
Russian, GEORGIAN, ORTHODOX RELIGIONS believe they alone are going to heaven. My son had to convert to marry his wife. I brought her to an Orthodox Church in town while visiting. I could just go to our mass if I brought her w me. She was crying in my church. It is a sin for her to be in any other religions churches. It was like that in Roman Catholicism, when I was 11yrs old. We were only ones going to heaven.
Now, this was before I found out about our evil Popes, etc. If Pope Borge made it to heaven, someone prayed the Chaplet of mercy at his death bed. I don’t think, Mercy Chaplet was around.
I pray, we are not getting myopic in thought. We are only ones going to heaven. Or shrink our movements, like we can’t enter other denominations churches.
Vatican II was good. The HOLY SPIRIT directed he changes. Decrease in attendance and vocations came from sin in church. Scandals broke after Vat II Council.
In Christ’s love
Tweedlealice


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