Non-Denom Christian Explains converting is easier with John 3:16, rather than complex Catholicism


#1

As a Catholic on a canoe trip with 4 other non-denominational but wonderful men, was asked the question:

“Why don’t you believe in going out and spreading the Good Word? Why don’t you have the motivation to go out and convert the pagan cultures…Jesus wanted you to do this”

True- those men, all have been to Haiti, and various other mission trips. They go down to help out, built a school or church, and spread the idea of Christianity. They’re great men.

They pointed out to me, that Catholicism is too complicated, and that just spreading the Good Word, such as John 3:16 is enough to these poor countries. They were using that as justification for the style of faith that they have, the type of church that they go to, and that I wouldn’t be able to bring Catholicism to them…but instead plain Christianity is all that is needed, and would be easier.

I responded - It’s not about being easy. And yes, you’re a better missionary than I, and yes, if I were to be a missionary, it might take longer to explain Catholicism, than just John 3:16

Any thoughts?


#2

well actually Catholocism IS Christianity, The Catholic Church was the first church to actually go out and convert pagans, The Catholic Church is the reason why Christianity is the dominate Relgion of today.


#3

The fact that they have gone to Haiti is a contradiction to their claims. Haiti is about 80% Catholic. How were they converted? The reason these non-denom missionaries have been successful is not that the people in third world countries are simple-minded (which is the implication). It’s that the people in Haiti are just human as we are and are attracted to quick fixes like “once saved always saved”. Another factor in Haiti is that voodoo is often tied into Catholicism. Rather than encourage Haitians to eliminate voodoo from their beliefs, the Protestant missionaries convince the people that Catholicism is voodoo.
I used to work with Haitian immigrants when I lived in Florida (both Catholics and converts to Protestantism) and this is what I learned from them.


#4

Yeah, it easy for any Tom ,Dickk, and Harry to go out there say anything they want, that’s how we got 30,000 sect right now, and the list is growing.They all teach a little different from one another, so somebody has to be wrong.:rolleyes:


#5

Too complicated eh?

What is complicated is trying to understand their position and trying to understand how you had no comeback for their line of reasoning.

If they like the book of John, you may ask them how the new “convert” will react to that book in entirety- and in context.

But- feel free to let them make you think you are not as good a missionary- especially when they are defining the role and who should be doing it-

We all have different talents.:thumbsup:


#6

I hope you have further contact with these guys so you can answer them after doing more thinking and getting some info under your belt. Here’s my take on your story….

Sounds like you were caught off guard by them. Not surprising as they were basically on the attack and you thought it was a friendly outing.

First off not every non-denom does the things that they are doing. Not everyone is in a financial position to take off for months to convert ‘pagans’. So it seems that they are in a privileged position. Or are they paid to do this? Basically they were being prideful and boasting of what they did and then used it to give you a hard time. It’s as though they were trying to say that you are responsible for all of the evangelizing that the Catholic Church should be doing (should in their estimation).

Hellisreal, it right. You may want to give his post some serious thought. What good are these men really doing if they are converting people to something that is almost, but not really, the right thing? And what if they are calling the Catholics pagans?
Many non-Catholics do not consider Catholics Christians.

Ask them why they (and if not they, other non-Catholic Christians) target Catholic communities to convert Catholics to their brand of Christianity? Why are they trying to convert Christians (Catholics) to Christianity? Surely their time and effort should go elsewhere if conversion is their goal.

Ask them if Catholicism is so hard to convert to, why is it that the ranks of the non-Catholic/non-Orthodox Christian denominations are losing members world wide? Why is it that Catholicism is the fastest growing religion in the world? And most of the growth in Catholicism is in 3rd world countries. IN Africa alone 6 million Muslims are leaving Islam a year, converting to Catholicism. This does not even start to count the pagans in Africa who are converting. It would appear from these statistics that converting to Catholicism is not too much of a hurdle for people of 3rd world countries.

Here’s some info for them: The Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the world. We do more to help with needy with charity in the form of: care centers, social services, orphanages, hospitals, school systems and on and on. And we do more evangelizing worldwide.

Every member of the CC who actually donates is helping in this effort. A person who cannot take time off to evangelize or do charity work in some far off exotic land is still helping by providing the funds to this. In most communities in the USA and worldwide there are Catholic Social Services where Catholics volunteer time to help. These services are available to anyone regardless of their religion.

Questions like the one these guys hit you with are actually a gift. As it is making to look deeper in the CC and your faith. That’s good. I hope you get to respond to them after you think about this more. For all of us Catholics, please do if you can.


#7

I’d like to resond to this aspect of their saying that Catholicism is “too complicated.”

For sure, Catholicism is complex. The theology of Catholicism, which is to say, Christianity, is elaborate, sophisticated, complex. The theologies of most of the Protestant sects, even some of the very large Protestant denominations, is almost ridiculously oversimplified.

And IMO, it is difficult to live the Catholic morality. Adhering to the teachings of the Catholic faith takes dedication, stamina, hard work.

Most of the Protestants preach an easy faith. Since their moral teachings are thinly described, people are “free-er” to do whatever feels right to them. Divorce, abortion, birth-control, etc, are easier to rationalize.


#8

I believe Catholicism is easier. Afterall, 1 out of every 6 people on earth are Catholic. What can be easier than infant water baptism?

They are probably used to having discussions with other non-denoms. Some feel Roman 10:9-10 is easier.

By the way… I just look up some stats on Haiti and it’s religion.

“Roman Catholicism is the official religion of Haiti, but voodoo may be considered the country’s national religion. The majority of Haitians believe in and practice at least some aspects of voodoo. Most voodooists believe that their religion can coexist with Catholicism. Most Protestants, however, strongly oppose voodoo.”

countrystudies.us/haiti/33.htm


#9

The Catholic Church downright condemns the practice of voodoo. The fact that the practicioners believe their practices can co-exist with Catholicism does not mean that the Church believes as such.


#10

Someone should tell that to the Catholics in Haiti.


#11

That sounds like something the devil whispers in someone’s ear. The devil always wants us to avoid looking at things in terms of true or untrue…he uses phrases like modern/outdated, easy/complicated, popular/unpopular, exciting/boring…etc… I say give them a copy of The Screwtape Letters!


#12

You have over 1,000 posts on this forum and you think that Catholicism is just “infant water baptism”? Are you kidding.


#13

If you read my post in context, I’m merely pointing out that infant water baptism is the easiest method. I did not say infant water baptism is all there is. However, Catholicism is still a very complicated religion once you enter in through the doors of the sacramental water baptism.

As for a faith only protestant, no one can be physically born into Christianity. Every person must make a conscious proclamation of faith in Jesus.

This faith is the belief in Jesus and His finished work on the cross. We are baptized into His death and believe we are likewise resurrected with Him.


#14

The Catholic Church would disagree with those who claim that they can co-exist. She opposes voodoo, also.

The devil has a strong grip on that country.


#15

Our Lord tells us that “narrow is the gate”; seems to me that building the promise of salvation on John 3:16 (and nothing else) is a pretty broad path to take.

I find it a little ironic that there are many Protestants who subscribe to the Atomic Church of Me, making the claim that they gave themselves to Jesus and NOT to “a Church”, fail to grasp the reality that it is the visible Church that IS Christ.


#16

I did…but thanks for adding your clarification.

But why do you post what voodooists say about themselves being Catholic? So what. The Church teaches against such practices (see Catechism paragraphs 2115-2117) no matter what voodooists say.

A stalker tells you he’s in love with the celebrity but the celebrity wants nothing to do with him. Do you embrace a stalker telling you that he and the celebrity are close?

Why the eagerness to connect Catholicism and voodoo?


#17

Since when don’t Catholics do missionary work?? My son spent time in the Dominican Republic as a Catholic missionary helping to build a water supply to people in a remote village. The actions of Catholic missionaries many times speaks much louder than any words could.


#18

Isnt that what Santeria is all about. An almagation of Voodo and Catholicisim.


#19

I don’t know…perhaps you could provide that information…and how it relates to the Catechism paragraphs I cited.


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