Non Denominational Christians question


#1

I work with several Non-Denominational Christians. We got into the debate of Why they should become Catholic. They stated that they are simply people of Christ and do not need any group to call their own. They are with Christ. I could not really argue that. Can anyone give me any help?

Thanks
Randy


#2

At first aproximation, I would consider the fact that they do not have the sacraments. They are running free with only their faith to sustain them.:yup:


#3

[quote=Exporter]At first aproximation, I would consider the fact that they do not have the sacraments. They are running free with only their faith to sustain them.:yup:
[/quote]

Ok that is good I used that one. I need concrete information please. Is there bible passages to prove RC is the best way? I don’t believe so. They asked me to find something that states that being RC is the right way. I am not that good at finding quotes in the bible. Is there any? They say that they only take the bible as truth. For them, if it is not in the bible then it is not the truth. How can you argue with that?

:banghead:


#4

[quote=Exporter]At first aproximation, I would consider the fact that they do not have the sacraments. They are running free with only their faith to sustain them.:yup:
[/quote]

Without Faith you would not believe there is even a God. Three things I have Faith, Hope And Love. The greatest being Love. :thumbsup:


#5

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Without Faith you would not believe there is even a God. Three things I have Faith, Hope And Love. The greatest being Love. :thumbsup:
[/quote]

OK, how does that help me to prove to them that RC is the right way to go?


#6

[quote=Randell] For them, if it is not in the bible then it is not the truth. How can you argue with that?

[/quote]

ask them how they know the bible is true. then ask them where we got the bible and who first said it was inerrant (hint, it was the catholic church who gave us the bible, first said it was inerrant, and still says it today).


#7

[quote=bengal_fan]ask them how they know the bible is true. then ask them where we got the bible and who first said it was inerrant (hint, it was the catholic church who gave us the bible, first said it was inerrant, and still says it today).
[/quote]

I will need proof that what you say is true. I agree but I know that they will say this to me.


#8

[quote=bengal_fan]ask them how they know the bible is true. then ask them where we got the bible and who first said it was inerrant (hint, it was the catholic church who gave us the bible, first said it was inerrant, and still says it today).
[/quote]

Yes this is the key!!! According to their own belief, if they cannot show you were the Bible says “if it is not in the bible then it is not the truth”, or anything even close to that, that would prove their belief to be erroneous!

You must put the burden on them once they make a statment like that, because if they cannot even back up the most essential principle of their faith, then their entire view of Christianity is flawed!


#9

[quote=martino]Yes this is the key!!! According to their own belief, if they cannot show you were the Bible says “if it is not in the bible then it is not the truth”, or anything even close to that, that would prove their belief to be erroneous!

You must put the burden on them once they make a statment like that, because if they cannot even back up the most essential principle of their faith, then their entire view of Christianity is flawed!
[/quote]

Good point, but it just seems that we will be going in circles because they can say the same thing to me right? Where in the bible does it say that being RC is the right way?


#10

I think you are wasting your time looking for passages that they should belong to the Catholic Church. It is not the few passages, but the whole of the New Testament that says that.

However, if look and quote you must, focus on the issues of authority, and decision making (the Counsel of Jerusalem), and the results which have occured since the Reformation concerning seeking truth (and Truth).

Then you might go to sacramental theology, and then back to the NT to show the sacraments.

You might also look at Scott Hahn’s conversion story, and the conversion stories edited by Patrick madrid in his Surprised by Truth series, as they will show what has led others to see the need for church and Church.


#11

[quote=Randell]Ok that is good I used that one. I need concrete information please. Is there bible passages to prove RC is the best way? I don’t believe so. They asked me to find something that states that being RC is the right way. I am not that good at finding quotes in the bible. Is there any? They say that they only take the bible as truth. For them, if it is not in the bible then it is not the truth. How can you argue with that?

:banghead:
[/quote]

Please read the History of the Bible thread.


#12

You don’t have to convince them to come into the Catholic Church. :eek:

You simply have to convince them that to know God is to love Him, and if they want to love Him more fully they need to know him more fully - have them start with the church fathers and the early church. If they follow the history of the church with an open mind, they will see the truth of the matter.

I think the problem with Evangelical churches or Catholicism-Lite is that it’s “good enough” for them. It fits their needs because their needs are shallow.

Sounds bad, I know. But they really don’t seek heaven, they seek assurance that they are bound for heaven. How can anyone know that they are going to heaven when they don’t even know what’s going to happen tomorrow? All fellowship is is the surrounding oneself with like-mineded fellows and sharing feelings and experiences; if your common experience is superficial, can you really create depth? But I digress.

However, that is the obstacle that you have to overcome. Their hearts, God bless them, are in the right place. Currently in America, they are a more formidable force than Catholicism because even with their parital grasp of the Truth, their fellowship allows them to be that common voice; if only more Catholics were that way.

I think I may have stumbled upon the problem: they see the lack of fellowship/unity in catholic America. As a group, we vote no differently than the whole, and when all of the “cultural catholics” and self-proclaimed catholics, and cafeteria catholics weigh in, we just don’t look that convincing. I wonder what they might think if they attended a catholic conference where othodox catholic teaching was the rule…


#13

[quote=Randell]OK, how does that help me to prove to them that RC is the right way to go?
[/quote]

Im sorry, I though you were looking for non-catholic input.Ill stay out. :thumbsup:


#14

[quote=ichabod]You don’t have to convince them to come into the Catholic Church. :eek:

You simply have to convince them that to know God is to love Him, and if they want to love Him more fully they need to know him more fully - have them start with the church fathers and the early church. If they follow the history of the church with an open mind, they will see the truth of the matter.

I think the problem with Evangelical churches or Catholicism-Lite is that it’s “good enough” for them. It fits their needs because their needs are shallow.

Sounds bad, I know. But they really don’t seek heaven, they seek assurance that they are bound for heaven. How can anyone know that they are going to heaven when they don’t even know what’s going to happen tomorrow? All fellowship is is the surrounding oneself with like-mineded fellows and sharing feelings and experiences; if your common experience is superficial, can you really create depth? But I digress.

However, that is the obstacle that you have to overcome. Their hearts, God bless them, are in the right place. Currently in America, they are a more formidable force than Catholicism because even with their parital grasp of the Truth, their fellowship allows them to be that common voice; if only more Catholics were that way.

I think I may have stumbled upon the problem: they see the lack of fellowship/unity in catholic America. As a group, we vote no differently than the whole, and when all of the “cultural catholics” and self-proclaimed catholics, and cafeteria catholics weigh in, we just don’t look that convincing. I wonder what they might think if they attended a catholic conference where othodox catholic teaching was the rule…
[/quote]

Good points also, I don’t think Catholics as a whole are that convincing. For me I worry that I may lead them in the wrong direction because I want to make them believe so badly. Then we get into the facts and they quote the bible, I get all stumbled up, and I look ridiculous. That is not that convincing. I want to help but I guess I am not the one to have that task because I don’t know everything I need to know to make my arguments stick.
That is the upsetting part for me. I get asked these questions because I am proud to be Catholic, everyone at work knows I am. But when I get into these “talks” I make our faith look bad because I can’t argue or quote like some of you can. :banghead:


#15

[quote=Katholikos]Please read the History of the Bible thread.
[/quote]

Can you help me find this please?


#16

Go to John Martignoni’s web site at:

www.biblechristiansociety.com

Order the tapes “One Church” and "Catholics and the Bible."
They may even be among the six free tapes he gives away.

In any event, get those two tapes. In your case, “One Church” would be critical. It will explain why the Catholic Church is the one, true Church established by Jesus Christ, and the arguments are all based on Scripture, so Protestants will understand and accept them.

If you study his arguments, you won’t get so flustered. Also, while you’re there, check out all of the other great tapes he’s got.


#17

[quote=Randell]Can you help me find this please?
[/quote]

Sure, gladly. It’s on this same Non-Catholic Religions forum. I’ll bump it up for you.

If I can help, let me know.

Katholikos1@aol.com


#18

This doesn’t help with the original question, but is simply an observation. Some, perhaps most, “non-denominational” churches in this area are Southern Baptist in disguise. I know a couple of the pastors and their take on the “non-denominational” or “community” church idea is to get their message across to those who are, for whatever reason, turned off by the Southern Baptists. A little trickery here but the theological message is the same. If it waddles and quacks, what is it?


#19

Randell,

I whole heartedly agree with Strider. Get John Martignoni’s tapes. He will give you the scriptural nuts and bolts to handle almost any situation and question with your co-workers and friends. Your desire to evangelize is a great work of Christ in your heart. Praise God that you have this desire.

If you want to evangelize and if you want to be an apologist for the faith there are several things that you must do. Foundationally, you need to be on fire for the faith and you must live it to the fullest. Your example will speak louder than words. Your acquaintances will see the light of Christ shinning from within you, and that will help to overcome their defenses. Beyond this I would suggest the following:

  1. Pray all the time and ask for God’s grace in your efforts to evangelize.
  2. Study everything you can get your hands on.
  3. Anticipate the most frequently asked questions from non-catholics and prepare thorough answers.
  4. Always show respect and show an appreciation for the common ground that we have as Christians.
  5. Don’t get discouraged; learning all that you need to know takes time and effort
  6. Write out answers to questions and save them for later. This will help in your memorization of scripture and the reasons that support our faith.
  7. When you get stumped, go back and research the answers. There are several great websites that are filled with information. catholic.com, jamesakin.com, bringyou.to/apologetics/apolog.htm, and ic.net/~erasmus/RAZHOME.HTM are all excellent.

Also stay on these boards and read the many threads that cover topics that interest you. If you want some personal attention I’m sure that you can private message or email almost any of the many Catholics on this board.

One last thing; we are not the ones that do the converting. We merely plant the seeds. The Holy Spirit does all the heavy lifting.


#20

I think something that might valuable to the me and Jesus crowd who rejects the church and the sacraments is that thye have some truth the scriptures but not the complete truth and not the complete fullness of the faith at best they have the grace of baptism and the scriptures what are they missing 6 sacramaments among those the body and blood of Jesus present in the eucharist they are also missing 7 very useful books of the Bible. And of course they are missing the guidance of the vicar of christ even in biblical terms they are missing the shepherd who holds the keys.

A good example may be that evangelicals have been given only the gopsel of Matthew. By that book you might have enough to save you and begin a personal realtionship with christ however, that is not the entire new testament the fullness of the new testament lies outside of what they have. So by accepting the church they can have the rest of the new testament and the fullness of the new testament. They in essecne have a part of the body of christ but have no realtionship but the early head of that body the bishop of Rome its kind hard to know the body without knowing its head.


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