Non Procreative Sex - Gay vs Heterosexual


#1

Consider the following hypothetical:

Couple 1 – Two Gay Men – Baptized Catholics. Enter into civil marriage (where legal), live together including sexual relationship. Do not approach Catholic Church for sacramental marriage for obvious reasons.

Couple 2 – Man and Woman –Baptized Catholics. Have no intention of ever having children, man gets vasectomy and woman has tubes tied. Enter into civil marriage, live together including sexual relationship. Also do not approach Catholic Church for sacramental marriage because they know it would be denied because they are not open to life. (They are absolutely honest-if they did see a priest they would not hide their intentions).

Both of these couples are living together including a sexual relationship outside of what the Church considers a valid marriage.

Is their sin of equal gravity, or is the gay couple’s sin more grave because the sex is homosexual, not heterosexual?


#2

They are both living in invalid relationships and commiting mortal sin. But as to their sins being “equal” that is for God alone to decide. We can’t put values on people’s sins because we cannot see into their hearts and know all the reasons why they decided to sin in the first place. This is why your hypothetical question is really useless–because in real life poeple’s motivations, fears, knowledge, etc. is too complex for such a question to be answered. All this would have to be sorted out by their confessors, if they decide to be reconciled with the Church. :slight_smile:


#3

I agree with Della, she is on point regarding the equality of sin. However, should the man & woman decide in the future to make their marriage valid & sacramental they at least have options, maybe not easy options, but they have a chance. The gay couple does not.


#4

Objectively, I guess you could count the number of mortal sins… but subjectively, that doesn’t tell us anything, nor does it matter.

Objectively, we will have to answer to God if we die guilty of mortal sin, whether it is just 1 mortal sin or 100 mortal sins. But subjectively, in the end, God will decide our fates.

Della’s answer is the best one though.


#5

The other possiblity is that none of them is committing personal mortal sin, or perhaps even any sin at all.

They are all of course committing grave matter for mortal sin (or objective mortal sin). But that only ticks one out of three boxes.


#6

Yes, but our jobs are to inform them of the objective mortal sin. Let God figure out if they are culpable.


#7

Collectively - as the Church - yes.

Individually - maybe - depends on how well we know them, how open they are to discussing such issues, how effectively we evangelise, etc. I think joyfully sharing our faith is a more effective witness than criticising others for their choices, but fraternal correction is also an important responsibility - when the circumstances are appropriate.


#8

agreed


#9

One couple is having conjugal relations while deliberately destroying the procreative aspect of conjugal relations. The other couple has no possibility of engaging in conjugal relations and the acts in which they engage are neither marital, conjugal, or procreative. Both violate the moral law.


#10

If the permanent and abiding intention to have kids is not there then there is prob nothing “conjugal” about the sex at all.

In which case both are doing not a lot more than mutual masturbation I suppose.


#11

Well, not quite. Male/female couples may be able to conceive a child, so even if they are preventing it, be it artificial or natural means, they are still having conjugal sex. I’d say that SS couples, since they cannot possibly conceive a child, are only engaging in masturbation.


#12

For the majority of us, the above is NOT our job.


#13

I don think so.
It is not possible to validly marry if one or both parties intended never to have offspring.
Therefore their acts could not rightly be described as conjugal from both a moral and canonical point of view.


#14

There is no equal footing on sin, or unequal for that matter. Sin is sin. They would still have to go to confession. Sin isn’t about how one person outdoes one another. Sin is about an unhealthy soul. The remedy between these two examples is the same; for both have to repent their sins in order to come into communion with Jesus.


#15

Well, that’s something for canon lawyers to work out. :wink:


#16

And that’s why western society is going down the toilet


closed #17

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