Not all miracles are from God


#1

the Scriptures say that not all miracles are from God.

MATT 7:22 “Many will say to me in that day; Lord, Lord, have we prophesied in thy name, cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.”

so how do you discern the “miracles in thy name” which are not from God?


#2

What do you mean?, I can only say that people are Gods’ instruments. You can be an instrument of peace, of love and even of a miracle. When I said God brought my daughter back to me, did he really bring her home?, physically no, people did. It was a miracle by God carried out by man. All miracles are from God.

:amen:

That is my opinion, my :twocents: if you will


#3

sry double please delete.


#4

You test them about what IS know about God- against Scripture, tradition, etc. If they contradict, they are obviously not from the Lord. It cantake a long time to decide- that’s why it takes the Vatican so long to recognize/condemn many things.


#5

[quote=gnome]the Scriptures say that not all miracles are from God.

MATT 7:22 “Many will say to me in that day; Lord, Lord, have we prophesied in thy name, cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.”

so how do you discern the “miracles in thy name” which are not from God?
[/quote]

This is something that interests me as well. I believe we live in a day of many “lying wonders” as the Bible calls them. I don’t have all of the answers you are looking for, but I do know that the devil is able to work, what are called preturnatural “miracles”. These are not true miracles, but only appear to be.

For example, since the devil has a much higher intelligence than we do, he may know, for example, what plant cures cancer. He may be able to place this plant on a persons food, which cures them. To us, we may think a miracle occurred, but it was really not a true miracle. Also, the devil may be able to lift things, or move things. Since we do not see the devil doing this, it may appear to be miraculous.

What the devil is not able to do is create. He cannot create something out of nothing. He is supposed to be able to cause created things to change shape, or form, which may appear miraculous. For example, he may be able to make a statue appear to move, or speak, but he cannot create something out of nothing. If you remember, when Moses turned his staff into a snake, Pharoh’s magicians did the same.

All of the things occurring in Medjugorgi, for example, are only preturnatural “miracles”. Rome has stated that nothing supernatural is taking place their. A lot of “signs and wonders” may be occurring, but there are not true miracles (not supernatural), and thus all of the things taking place at Medjugori, could be done by the devil.

I believe a lot of “false signs and lying wonders” are taking place today and leading many astray, just like Jesus warned us about in Matthew 24…


#6

Basically all the dark one knows how to do is BS and Lie. He loves BS.

So his mircales tend to be of the Jerry Fawell palmheeled variety. Hs can just as soon heal someone if hes paying someone in the audience $50 to be healed and he can just as soon tell you a lie straight to your face. If you dont see an Angel but you hear a voice. You can assume its him. Especially in the case of people like Son of Sam. Oh yeah the dog told me to Kill him!

He is very smart but has very little power.


#7

maybe this will be helpful The word terata literally means “wonders”, in reference to feelings of amazement excited by their occurrence, hence effects produced in the material creation appealing to, and grasped by, the senses, usually by the sense of sight, at times by hearing, e.g., the baptism of Jesus, the conversion of St. Paul. Thus, though the works of Divine grace, such as the Sacramental Presence, are above the power of nature, and due to God alone, they may be called miraculous only in the wide meaning of the term, i.e., as supernatural effects, but they are not miracles in the sense here understood, for miracles in the strict sense are apparent. The miracle falls under the grasp of the senses, either in the work itself (e.g. raising the dead to life) or in its effects (e.g., the gifts of infused knowledge with the Apostles). In like manner the justification of a soul in itself is miraculous, but is not a miracle properly so called, unless it takes place in a sensible manner, as, e.g., in the case of St. Paul. The wonder of the miracle is due to the fact that its cause is hidden, and an effect is expected other than what actually takes place. Hence, by comparison with the ordinary course of things, the miracle is called extraordinary. In analyzing the difference between the extraordinary character of the miracle and the ordinary course of nature, the Fathers of the Church and theologians employ the terms above, contrary to, and outside nature. These terms express the manner in which the miracle is extraordinary.

A miracle is said to be above nature when the effect produced is above the native powers and forces in creatures of which the known laws of nature are the expression, as raising a dead man to life, e.g., Lazarus (John, xi), the widow’s son (III Kings, xvii). A miracle is said to be outside, or beside, nature when natural forces may have the power to produce the effect, at least in part, but could not of themselves alone have produced it in the way it was actually brought about. Thus the effect in abundance far exceeds the power of natural forces, or it takes place instantaneously without the means or processes which nature employs. In illustration we have the multiplication of loaves by Jesus (John, vi), the changing of water into wine at Cana (John, ii) – for the moisture of the air by natural and artificial processes is changed into wine – or the sudden healing of a large extent of diseased tissue by a draught of water. A miracle is said to be contrary to nature when the effect produced is contrary to the natural course of things. :slight_smile:


#8

It sounds to me like you are asking if the demons being cast out and the cures were actually the result of the devil (if not from God – then who else?). I don’t think this is the case. But don’t take my word for it – this is just how I rationalized the meaning.

Throughout the gospels Jesus performs many miraculous acts. He casts out demons, cures the sick, blind, paralyzed and all manner of afflictions. But without fail he makes it clear that it was not Him that cured them but rather THEIR faith. The Centurion, Bartimaeus, etc – each was healed (or had someone healed) because of their faith.

When you were healed it was through your own faith.

Now these guys… They casted out demons and cured the sick in the name of God but they lived evil lives. They bore bad fruit (Mt 7:16). But were they really responsible for the healing or was the faith the person being cured responsible (and of course God)? I believe it was their faith, and not the actions of the false prophets.

Even Jesus did not (was unable to?) heal those without faith (Mt 13:58).

Jesus says he does not know them. This is like Mt 10:33 (*“But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my heavenly Father.”). *You can’t just hear his words – you have to act on them as well (Mt 7:24).

And as to why I don’t think it is the devil. When the Pharisees heard the crowd asking whether or not Jesus could be the Son of David they claimed that He was casting of demons in the name of “Beelzebul, the prince of demons” (Mt 12:24). But Jesus clearly rebukes this in Mt 12:25-30 (“And if Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself; how, then, will his kingdom stand?”).

I could be way off base – if I am I hope to be corrected.


#9

Hello gnome,

I once read a book by an ex-follower of Jim Jones. Jim Jones started as an Assembly of God preacher, branched off, and ended up poisoning hundreds of his followers in Giana. He had his guards shoot those who did not drink the poison lemonade that he had ordered his followers to drink. The guards also shot and killed a US senetor investigating the cult. This happened in the 1970s.

The ex-follower worked hard to get people out of this cult before the ending atrocity. The ex-follower talked of all the evil that Jim Jones had done and taught. What the ex-follower admitted and could not understand was that he did see “miracles” preformed at Jim Jones hand in Jesus name. He himself was knocked to the ground (due to no physical reason) with a Jim Jones “laying on of hands” “alter call”, when he was a member.

I thought of MATT 7:22 when I read what the ex-follower of Jim Jones had to say.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com


#10

[quote=Bill_A]Especially in the case of people like Son of Sam. Oh yeah the dog told me to Kill him!

He is very smart but has very little power.
[/quote]

David Berkovitz has already confessed that together with satanism believes, it was only a lie to prove his insanity during trial. now he’s doing well in prison as a chaplain aid


#11

[quote=gnome]the Scriptures say that not all miracles are from God.

MATT 7:22 “Many will say to me in that day; Lord, Lord, have we prophesied in thy name, cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.”

so how do you discern the “miracles in thy name” which are not from God?
[/quote]

gnome It’s not that the miracles aren’t from God, it’s just that without charity, then the the miracles are worthless.

1826 “If I… have not charity,” says the Apostle, “I am nothing.” Whatever my privilege, service, or even virtue, “if I … have not charity, I gain nothing.” [1 Cor 13:1-4] Charity is superior to all the virtues. It is the first of the theological virtues: “So faith, hope, charity abide, these three. But the greatest of these is charity.” [1 Cor 13:13]

1827 The practice of all the virtues is animated and inspired by charity, which “binds everything together in perfect harmony”; [Col 3:14] it is the form of the virtues; it articulates and orders them among themselves; it is the source and the goal of their Christian practice. Charity upholds and purifies our human ability to love, and raises it to the supernatural perfection of divine love. 815, 826]


#12

I think we should note that the passage in question does not say that God did not perform the miracles (Consider the OT passage about how Saul and his soldiers all prophesy when they go out to bust the prophet of God), but that the persons in question led immoral lives and so were condemned. This is a prize-winning passage to refute the OSAS people since it shows people who outwardly have all the trappings of good Christians yet are not. One more good reason for us not to judge… Who knows the hearts of people but God alone?

Jesus says it best…“By their fruits you will know them.”


#13

[quote=Bill_A]Basically all the dark one knows how to do is BS and Lie. He loves BS.

[/quote]

I believe that. After working in large corporations, I realize how satanic it is when people use Bureaucratically Suitable language, a.k.a. Bureaucratic Speak.

Alan


#14

RSiscoe, I agree w/ you about the false signs and wonders.
But in your examples above, if we end up thinking it was God’s doing, and give God thanks and praise, what has the devil accomplished then? What is his purpose, certainly not for us to praise God?


#15

Thanks Rhorvick, I tend to believe the same, but lately I heard of cases where the person who came to seek healing were non-Christian and was healed. I don’t know this person but I know based on his religion, there’s no faith in God…
So it’s either the healing was psychological, or God’s mercy is endless.


#16

Steven,
I heard of Jim Jones but not that “miracle” part of the story.
Regarding the knocked to the ground thing, I read about this one Priest who after many years w/ a healing gift, had concluded that this “falling phenomenon” is mostly psychological.


#17

[quote=AlanFromWichita]I believe that. After working in large corporations, I realize how satanic it is when people use Bureaucratically Suitable language, a.k.a. Bureaucratic Speak.

Alan
[/quote]

Yes! you will get tired of my BS because I will repeat it for hours and days till you get tired of disagreeeing,

Again small battle one.


#18

[quote=gnome]the Scriptures say that not all miracles are from God.

MATT 7:22 “Many will say to me in that day; Lord, Lord, have we prophesied in thy name, cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.”

so how do you discern the “miracles in thy name” which are not from God?
[/quote]


Matthew 6: v22 - 24 have to be taken all together. The Commentary reads like this: Here Jesus shows not even your prophecies and miricles will save you: not without good works! The gift of miricales is bestowed on a man not for his own good but of others.Good works are required too. Good works proceed from faith.:bounce:


#19

[quote=gnome]RSiscoe, I agree w/ you about the false signs and wonders.
But in your examples above, if we end up thinking it was God’s doing, and give God thanks and praise, what has the devil accomplished then? What is his purpose, certainly not for us to praise God?
[/quote]

I think what he would try to accomplish by “lying wonders” is to lead us into error. For example, there are some very well known apologists (very well known!) who know certain teachings and “doctrines” of the charismatic movement are false, yet they remain involved in that movement. The reason they give is interesting. Even though they realize the theology is false (not Catholic), they defend the movement by saying “but look at the miracles”. There is a certain contradiction within their mind: they know the teachings are false, yet they see “miracles” and think it is a sign from God. Obviously, if the teachings are false, the “signs” are not from God, but are “lying wonders” produced by the devil to lead souls astray. The devil doesn’t care if we are praising God, as long as he can lead us into error and thus separate us from God.

That is why I think he would produce the lying wonders. When Jesus speaks of the “signs and lying wonders”, He ties it in with deception and false teachings that will deceive (if possible) even the elect. In other words, Catholics.

"And when [Jesus] was sitting on mount Olivet, the disciples came to him privately, saying:… what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the consummation of the world? [font=Trebuchet MS,Verdana][size=2]And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man deceive you. For many [heresies] will come in my name and say I am Christ , and shall deceive many… [font=Trebuchet MS,Verdana]
For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. [font=Trebuchet MS,Verdana][size=2]Behold I have told it to you, beforehand".[/size]

[/font][/font]
The first thing our Lord warned us about was deception. Many will come saying “I am Christ”, meaning “I have the doctrine of Christ”, and “shall deceive many”. He said that these “false Christs and false prophets” will “shew great signs and wonders”… “to deceive (if possible) even the elect”. Christ Himself warned us about this.

The first test is always how faithful the teachings are to the Church. If the teachings stray at all from Church teaching, any “signs and wonders” should be suspected.
[/font][/size]


#20

**

RSiscoe, I agree w/ you about the false signs and wonders.
But in your examples above, if we end up thinking it was God’s doing, and give God thanks and praise, what has the devil accomplished then? What is his purpose, certainly not for us to praise God?
**

I think what he would try to accomplish by “lying wonders” is to lead us into error. For example, there are some very well known apologists (very well known!) who know certain teachings and “doctrines” of the charismatic movement are false, yet they remain involved in that movement. The reason they give is interesting. Even though they realize the theology is false (not Catholic), they defend the movement by saying “but look at the miracles”. There is a certain contradiction within their mind: they know the teachings are false, yet they see “miracles” and think it is a sign from God. Obviously, if the teachings are false, the “signs” are not from God, but are “lying wonders” produced by the devil to lead souls astray. The devil doesn’t care if we are praising God, as long as he can lead us into error and thus separate us from God.

That is why I think he would produce the lying wonders. When Jesus speaks of the “signs and lying wonders”, He ties it in with deception and false teachings that will deceive (if possible) even the elect. In other words, Catholics.

"And when [Jesus] was sitting on mount Olivet, the disciples came to him privately, saying:… what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the consummation of the world? [font=Trebuchet MS,Verdana][size=2]And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man deceive you. For many [heresies] will come in my name and say I am Christ , and shall deceive many… [font=Trebuchet MS,Verdana]
For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. [font=Trebuchet MS,Verdana]Behold I have told it to you, beforehand".
[/font][/font]
The first thing our Lord warned us about was deception. Many will come saying “I am Christ”, meaning “I have the doctrine of Christ”, and “shall deceive many”. He said that these “false Christs and false prophets” will “shew great signs and wonders”… “to deceive (if possible) even the elect”. Christ Himself warned us about this.

The first test is always how faithful the teachings are to the Church. If the teachings stray at all from Church teaching, any “signs and wonders” should be suspected.[/font][/size]


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