Not your average dateless single guy thread


#1

Hey, I had another question to ask you guys. As I said before I'm 29, have gone to Protestant churches most of my life, an underemployed lawyer who has gone back to school for a Master's. I've gone to high-ranked schools, I've avoided drugs and partying, I have musical talent, I speak more than 1 language, I've traveled to 33 states as well as Europe and Asia, and my family background is decent. I've lived in many places in the USA--northern and southern California, the East Coast, and the Midwest.

But no matter where I go, I can't find dates no matter what I do. I feel like everywhere I go in the world, women are already in relationships, or have too much trouble going on in their lives. This problem gets worse and worse as I get older. No matter what I do (and I feel I do a lot socially), I can't find a date.

It's not like I'm shy or had all these childhood traumas. I lack the charismatic leadership to organize a party, but I'm pretty social. I can meet women, have conversation, make them laugh, get their number, and have a first meeting for coffee or lunch. But the follow-up is where I crash and burn.

I am totally impoverished in this area. I've never had an official girlfriend. Heck, I couldn't even find a date to my high school prom. I once was seeing someone for 4 months at age 25, but according to her we were never officially together.

Aside from that I feel like a virgin again. But here's where my thread is not the average thread.

Some people would say that's a great thing because I have no baggage, but ironically, I feel like a loser because of it. Why? Because I don't feel like virginity is fully my choice. If I was able to attract several women, and be able to reject a few every once in a while, then I wouldn't feel like such a loser. Or if I had sex with all these women in the past but now decided to repent of my sins, then I would feel good about feeling like a virgin.

But for me, I can't get laid no matter what I do, and that's why I feel like a loser--the fact that it's not by choice. I wish I had sex with all these girls so I wouldn't have to struggle with the feelings I'm struggling with. Of course it's a sin to have sex out of marriage, but I'm just being real and sharing the feelings I go through.

I think the two things that hold me back are my height and race. I feel like girls all want 6'2 white guys so they can come up to the guy's chest and feel secure. I'm 5'8 and Asian. Women won't date shorter men, and I hear Asians are at the bottom of the ladder in dating. We are stereotyped as geeky, too quiet, and too different. The things that are valued in Asia--stoicism, work as high priority, respecting tradition, respecting elders, decorum, and so on--are not values in the West. Asians also avoid physical affection in public, which is not a value in the West.

I've tried to be Americanized in all of these areas (after all, I am American too), but somehow I still feel that though women will say hi to me, they won't really care to get to know me on a better level.

I've always been most attracted to white women from an early age--that's just how I am. But I feel like white women don't like Asian men. Why are women attracted to whites, blacks, and Hispanics, but not Asians? Is it because there are few Asian actors in Hollywood?

Why are there so many white guy-Asian girl couples, but few Asian guy-white girl couples??

It's tough because I go to school again and there's lots of cute women on campus, but they're not in my program so they're hard to meet. Sometimes I can strike a conversation, but usually it's hard to come up with something to say. What do I say when there's nothing to say? And should I just go up to them in the library or at bars? Usually women are on the defensive in these places.

You might say I should meet girls at church. But to me, church is the hardest place to meet girls, because of the pretense of holiness required at church. If you try to get to know a girl at church, she automatically gets defensive because of the careful treading that the church culture requires when it comes to dating.

Recently I've tried not to care about such pretenses and just be myself. I've been able to get a few numbers and first meetings. But once again, I crash and burn at the follow-up.

No matter what I do, where I go, women are either in relationships or have too much going on in their lives.

It really sucks because I'm almost 30. Assuming it takes 2 years to connect with a woman enough to consider marriage, I'll be 32 at the minimum when I'm married.

Some of you are laughing as you read this. But it's not funny to me and I need to get the ball rolling now. And I don't feel called to the priesthood. Everyone tells me to pray, but I don't believe in praying for good grades and not studying. What do I do?


#2

You might be right about the white woman-Asian guy pairing, but interracial couples in general are comparatively rare. White woman-black man couples are also fairly uncommon. Most couples I see are of the same race.

Is finding a white woman an absolute must for you? Do you try to pursue Asian women?


#3

For now, the only thing I will say is that you sound urgent. And that urgency will completely ruin your chances with girls not only because of the vibes it gives off but also because it does things to your own mind that make you pick and choose and judge women in funny ways.

Just relax. It should be comforting to know that in a few years you're gonna remember posting this topic here and you're gonna blush, and then continue being happy with your girlfriend/wife ;)

For now, keep praying to God. If you are uncomfortable in praying for a spouse (I am, I pray instead for God's will) then pray to God and speak to him as a friend and a father. Also, you seem to have some good grounding, and yet you also seem to value some secular kind of thoughts - like having sex with tons of girls and stuff. Dude, no :( thats not what you want :o
God will provide, just pray, be yourself, be on the lookout but not on the prowl, and all things will come together.

Stop concentrating on this Asian business, and the height thing and all that. I honestly believe these considerations are the most ridiculous out of all concerns that one might have. And I think most of the time it stems from shallowness. Most people when they say "I am not sure women are attracted to me" what they are actually saying is "I want a really hot girlfriend but I can't get one". Just relax, and be a man. The women you might one day meet and marry is going to be beautiful and she is going to find you insanely attractive. Pray above all for God's will to be done and his hand to guide you, because only that way can you find happiness (in all things!).


#4

PraizThinkr, man, I feel for ya. I am so glad to be out of the dating game. Like you, I didn’t have a whole lot of luck when it came to creating committed relationships. It got to be very depressing.

And for those who think he is exaggerating the difficulty for Asian men, there is a mildly famous analysis of response patterns by race at the online dating service OkCupid. When guys would initiate contact with women…

White women prefer white men to the exclusion of everyone else—and Asian and Hispanic women prefer them even more exclusively. These three types of women only respond well to white men. More significantly, these groups’ reply rates to non-whites is terrible. Asian women write back non-white males at 21.9%, Hispanic women at 22.9%, and white women at 23.0%. It’s here where things get interesting, for white women in particular.

blog.okcupid.com/index.php/2009/10/05/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/

PraizThinkr, I don’t think anyone will laugh at you. Lamenting about the difficulty of finding a spouse is extremely common here. You might take heart in noting that the average age for a first marriage is pretty late in the US. In 2003, for guys, it was 27.1 years, and the trend had been for it be getting older with each passing year, so by now the average age is likely 28 or 29. I realize that you are at or above that age, but an average means that half the people are above that age, so I think you share your plight with a lot of other guys.

I wish I could give advice to you, but being geeky, dating isn’t an area in which I do very well! :blush:


#5

What part of the country do you live in? In Southern California it seems like white women are fine with dating Asian men. I see it all the time. I've done it myself. 5' 8" really isn't all that short, so I am sure that is not the issue.

As someone else pointed out, being rather urgent and impatient are fairly unappealing qualities. I would pray to find some peace and some patience and find ways to enjoy the stage of life that you are presently in. Do you have many good guy friends? Do you have any good female friends? Being able to relax and enjoy the company of friends will probably help you relax and enjoy the company of a woman on a date.

One thing women are not going to want to feel on the first few dates is that you are in a rush to be in a relationship. What that tells me is that someone isn't taking the time to get to know me as a unique individual. It makes me feel totally interchangeable with any other woman. Being in a rush tends to pretty much douse the chance of any chemistry getting started up. I seriously think that is the real issue.


#6

Without laughing at you, I do think you’re being a bit silly.

First, you are not being chaste passively. You’re demonstrating good standards, because it’s easy enough to get laid if you hang out in pickup bars or buy a prostitute’s services. You don’t do that. That’s great.

It is the “culture of death” that is trying to make you think you’re less of a man. Notches on your belt don’t make you a man, they make you at best, careless, and at worst, a predator.

You’re on a Catholic website! When you marry a Catholic woman, she will be very happy to find that she’s not the 50th woman you’ve slept with.

Forget about the odds against you. There are plenty of women that find Asian guys hot. (Jackie Chan - yum!)

Who do you want for friends? If you don’t want the bigots, the promiscuous, or party animals as friends, then their opinions should mean nothing to you.

And relax. You may have to wait a while. Be patient.

Last but not least, pray for blessings on all single women, that they discover both chastity and find their “Mr. Right.” And pray for all men who are tricked into thinking they have to have lots of sex.

God bless you,

Ruthie (who married “Mr. Right” 13 years ago, at age 44)


#7

I’m sorry. It almost seems like if they get to know you a bit, you might get thought of someone that you might want to marry, but not someone fun. You might be a bit to worried to, and that gives off bad vibes on a date. I think it may do you good to step back, and just try to make a number of friends of both sexes. Plus if you look down on yourself and your prospects, your taking away from yourself even having a fighting chance.

I know that being a bit short and Asian does have some tendency to make it difficult, but those characteristics only tend to get your foot in the door. In the end your biggest asset is you, and once you hook someone, any of those issues will go away.

I suppose the other thing you could do is to get your female friends to start watching Asian dramas. When they see all the wonderful boyfriends, they may think they may want an Asian man for themselves. :stuck_out_tongue:


#8

Okay, I am laughing, and not because of what you wrote, but because of how similar our situations are! I love coincidences. :angel1: I am the same age, and funny enough, the same height; however, I am white, not asian.

I believe the only other difference between you and I is attitude. Five years ago, I would have written something similar to what you have written. Now, my attitude is “it’ll happen when it’s supposed to happen, so I might as well forget about it, go out and do what God is calling me to do, be productive, do stuff I enjoy, meet people in the process, make friends, and one of these days it’ll just happen”. It is amazing what a difference that makes! Five years ago, women did not want to touch me with a ten foot stick. Only one was interested, and I “scared her away”. Now, a lot of girls like me, and I have the opposite problem - I have to take that stick and beat them off with it!

I quote NewsTheMan here because I think he is right about what your main problem is. You probably quickly get labeled as “desperate” and even “creepy”, and that will frighten “church girls” off quicker than anything.

How did I get to that point? Lots of prayer, meditating on Scripture and the Lives of the Saints, tapping into the power of positive thinking, venting with friends from time to time, and embracing my cross - a lot. Oh, and getting busy with doing good and productive things - that helps too.

One more thing - I don’t ask them for their numbers. I just get to know them as friends, we hang out together, and in time, I can usually tell if they like me. From there, it’s simple. :thumbsup:


#9

Btw, where I used to live, there was a shorter Asian man (maybe 5’2’’) who married a beautiful young lady from the same Catholic young adults group. She was white, and I believe about three inches taller than him.


#10

Man, you sound like the complete package: Intelligence…education…talent…high earning potential. I have to believe that you are doing some little thing that is turning potential dates off, and once you can identify what it is and correct it, you’ll need an assault rifle to fight the women off. It’s probably some little quirk that is obvious to everyone else but that you just can’t see. Do you have any female friends or relatives to whom you feel close enough to confide in about such matters? Someone who could shed some light on possible problems.

Regarding racial preferences women have when looking for potential mates: That stuff is so very deeply ingrained, it would be like beating your head against a brick wall trying to overcome it. That said, if you just forget about it and treat women like people instead of potential mates, you might find a woman who isn’t hung up on such things, or who might forget about them once she gets to know you.

Finally, as others have noted, “desperation” is not an attractive quality. Just relax, be social and open to whatever possibilities come your way, but don’t try to force things. At 29, believe me, time is on your side.

One more thing: At 5’8" you can probably forget about an NBA career, but really…there are lots of guys who are much shorter who would love to be 5’8".

Actually, I have one more question. Just out of curiosity, why did you come to this site with your questions? Are you planning to convert to Catholicism? As you may have discovered, Catholics have some…uh… “different” ideas about dating, marriage, and sexuality. This is not where I would come to complain about not getting laid.

Best of luck. I suspect that things will eventually work out for you. :thumbsup:


#11

There could be another stereotype working against you, that Asian guys are more sexist than white guys. Asian cultures are extremely patriarchal, and those values are a turn off to women. That could be playing a big part in why white men are preferred. Non-white cultures in general treat women considerably worse, so non-white women could be seeing marriage to a white man as a way to be treated as an equal.

So maybe go the extra mile to show them you don’t hold to those beliefs. But as another person said, 5’8" is not that short. With shoes you’d be 5’9", and if you work out/are muscular you can be hot. (I’m a white woman by the way :p)


#12

[quote="flyingfish, post:11, topic:198525"]
There could be another stereotype working against you, that Asian guys are more sexist than white guys. Asian cultures are extremely patriarchal, and those values are a turn off to women. That could be playing a big part in why white men are preferred. Non-white cultures in general treat women considerably worse, so non-white women could be seeing marriage to a white man as a way to be treated as an equal.

So maybe go the extra mile to show them you don't hold to those beliefs. But as another person said, 5'8" is not that short. With shoes you'd be 5'9", and if you work out/are muscular you can be hot. (I'm a white woman by the way :p)

[/quote]

I was wondering this too, but also thought I doubt there will be a large number of non-asians that would realize that. Might be more of a concern for asian females, especially the further from traditional asian they become.


#13

[quote="jman507, post:12, topic:198525"]
I was wondering this too, but also thought I doubt there will be a large number of non-asians that would realize that. Might be more of a concern for asian females, especially the further from traditional asian they become.

[/quote]

Much has been made about Japanese who make rape porn/rape video games (CNN had a segment about it as far as I recall), it's also common knowledge that China's one child policy led to female babies being murdered (something that was taught to me in high school). White women in general know that women in other countries have it much worse.

Imagine if it were the reverse, if white men expected a submissive wife who would take care of all the household chores/his sexual needs, listen to what he said, while Asian guys were encouraging women to participate in careers, pulled their weight around the house, were respectful and so on.


#14

I totally agree with the streotype. (which unfortunately some people enforce with their behaviours). White men marry non- white woman to have someone cook and clean for them without complaining. White women do NOT marry others cultures for not wanting to become a house keeper.

To the OP, you appear to want honest feedback so I hope you understand I am speaking the truth in love.

1-) You say you feel like a virgin again. That makes me think you had sex and want more. To a Catholic woman that is a turn off. No respect for the sanctity of marriage

2-) Then you say you feel like a looser because virginity is not your choice. Now I am thinking you don't even know if you have had sex or not. To a smart woman that makes no sense and the only possible conclusion is you are getting lost in your lies. Women worth having value honesty

3-) If you feel like a looser for not having sex, then you are sending out a big warning that you don't really care to practice the Catholic religion. It is a big contradiction to me that a lot of men proudly tell everyone they attend church every week but secretly hope no one finds out they are a virgin.

4-) A very BIG misconception among men is 'If I make a girl laugh I can get a date'. If a man says something funny, I will stick to him like glue at a party and asked him to repeat it again. I LOVE to laugh. I choose my dates on VERY different criteria. ie plans ahead, puncutality responsible etc. Sadly some woman laugh out of politeness but deep down are annoyed

5-) And this is were I am getting general because I don't know you. Whenever I hear a man say 'I don't get it. I am a nice guy why can't I get a girlfriend', I don't think they realise the error in their thinking. A more accurate statment is 'Everyone has faults but I am oblivious to mine'. Men think that if they keep their voice low and don't start the fight they are a nice guy. There is more to it than that

6-) As for being a catch because you are a lawyer. Yes that is remarkable and definetly a bonus. However, it is not the asset it once was. Woman nowadays are just as educated as men. Having a university has almost become as basic as having a pulse. Sad but that is how some woman think. Personally a man's spending habits mean more to me than his actual income. If I had the choise between a man earning $50,000/year who budgets and pays cash for a modest car, I would choose him in a heart beat over a man who earns $100,000 and has signed a loan for a car.

I hope you understand this is in no way shape a critique on you. It is simply giving you the inside on how woman think

CM


#15

I'm a white, American woman who's attracted to Asian men :shrug:


#16

Remember, PraizThinkr, you want a woman to be attracted first and foremost to your soul. Yes, being physically attractive is nice; however, looks do tend to fade away.

Perhaps this may be your cross to bear. One of my friends will always say, “The bigger the cross, the bigger the blessings.”

Like what a lot of people have already said on here, keep praying for your future wife. Personally, I fast for my future husband.

As far as the race/height issue, I would not worry about that. If you encounter discrimination, then obviously, she’s not the girl for you.

Be prayerful and stay close to God. That’s probably the best advice I can offer you.


#17

Really? Where are these women? I haven't met them. I'm originally from LA, and despite its diversity, the people are highly segregated. There is a lot of white-Hispanic dating, but each ethnicity is remarkably insular. I've made a conscious choice to attend a multiethnic church as a result. Don't even get me started on the exclusivity of Orange County, where people don't even give you the time of day if you're not a wealthy beach-goer who has good looks, a nice car, perfect family, and was involved in all these sports, or if you're not a Marine from Camp Pendleton, or if you're not Latino and good at flirting (stereotype, but kinda true)....

In Northern California, my friend is a wedding photographer based in the Bay Area, and I see his work once in a while. He has had several white man-Asian woman couples as clients... very few the other way around.

I have many, many acquaintances, but few friends. It's hard to keep consistent friendships as an adult, since everyone is so busy. It's hard to have close female friendships, unless there is absolutely no attraction between me and them.

Currently I live in Kansas, so by default, most of my friends and acquaintances are white. People here are friendlier to me and more accepting than I anticipated. But I don't have any close friends here as of yet. It will take time, I've only been here 6 months.

Yeah, people tell me this a lot. It's hard to break the cycle of urgency or desperation when I've been luckless for this long. There will always be that tinge of urgency there. Every time I meet someone new I get all these thoughts--"Could she be the one that finally breaks the streak for me?" Then I crash and burn somehow.

Can you tell me more about how you broke the cycle of desperation?

I do pursue hobbies and productive things. I am in school and get involved in different groups. I'm checking out a parish (see below).

Trust me, I am quite flawed. But it is the million-dollar question. What's so different about me compared to all the other guys? Why do I have more difficulty than everyone else? Maybe I come across as too nice, and should be more edgy like the jerks?

Honestly maybe I should've joined the Marines instead. Women love men in uniform....

Yeah, that stereotype also exists and I hate it. What the heck do I need to do to combat this? What do I need to do differently when I approach women, especially since they will already have their stereotypes in store? Obviously I am at a disadvantage, what do I need to do strategically or in conversation to overcome it??


#18

For the record, aside from that girl I saw for four months, I am a virgin. So I'm not fully clean but I'm still cleaner than 99% of people my age. Catholics struggle with the sin of sex just as much as everyone else. And yes, even in church, no one admits his or her virginity. It doesn't mean we don't care to practice our faiths, but it means we struggle with a culture that says that if you're not sexually active, you're a loser, and that something is wrong with you. Like I said, I wish I had more sex back in the past and repented for it, so that I don't struggle with the feelings of being a loser today.

I sometimes wish I could fall away and be an agnostic, so I can be liberal, party and hook up with women more. But after years and years of Christian upbringing, I can't relate to their culture and they can't relate to me.

Ironically, one reason I stay Christian is because the Christian church is the only place that would accept a guy like me, who's kinda innocent-looking and conservative-looking. But inside, I wish I could break free and sin. Sometimes I regret not rebelling more in my youth... now I'm almost 30....

Because I'm considering Catholicism, but there are barriers for me, like my dad, and the Church's political positions. See my thread "Political positions of the Church are a stumbling block for me joining."

Also, because the advice of Protestants rings hollow to me. Stupid Joshua Harris and his book "I Kissed Dating Goodbye," which said that if you get too close with someone who you don't end up getting married to, it's a sin. Therefore, couples should only date if they know they will be married to each other. Sounds good in theory, but it ruined dating for me and all of my other Christian peers. Protestant churches have stopped agreeing with this book, but the damage was already done....

But I've always heard that if you delay too long in making a move, you risk going into the friend zone. Is this true?


#19

Some things you can do:

  • Casually mention how you visited your mother and helped her with the household chores

  • Casually mention your sister/mother/female relative (better a relative than a friend), and how you admire their strength/perseverance/successfulness

  • Make references to some woman, and express being impressed by how smart she is, especially how she is smarter than you

  • Make references about how you enjoyed cooking for a woman, maybe a female friend or girlfriend

  • Should conversation come around to social issues, express as your own the view that women may be raised to believe that they’re bad at things (like say math) and as a result don’t attempt it, say you would like to see that changed

  • Maybe casually mentioned, should discussion get to that point, how you’re saddened that Asian culture expects the man to be the boss of the wife, and that you don’t want to live like that

  • Get some feminist books and put them on your shelf

  • Volunteer for an organization that helps abused women

  • Also, generally, when you talk to the woman make an effort to ask her her point of view, behave like you’re interested in it, like you value it, make her feel respected etc.

Be realistic about having to do some extra work. If you’re thin for example, make an effort to work out more and build muscle.

Trust me, I am quite flawed. But it is the million-dollar question. What’s so different about me compared to all the other guys? Why do I have more difficulty than everyone else? Maybe I come across as too nice, and should be more edgy like the jerks?

It is possible to come across as too nice, if it makes you seem meek and unmasculine. You have to work to project an air of strength, competence, ability to fight your way through difficulties. Doesn’t mean being a jerk, being a jerk is a turn off. But if you lack confidence in your presentation, work on that, women find it attractive.


#20

Bravo for coming out with this. I think it’s almost the “elephant in the room” when it comes to being a young Catholic Christian in todays society.

I know exactly how you feel. Maybe some explanation is necessary. I’m also like that sometimes; there is an internal struggle inside me. I think to myself what am I doing, this is so difficult and I don’t feel any better for it. In some sense I do, but I mean, these people don’t know what they’re missibg in their lives and they just dont care either. Maybe I should be like a secular person and go out drinking, having hook ups and doing all that. It seems to make them happy, and I’m meant to be happy and yet I’m alone every friday night because everyone else is doing all that!

Except… I am grateful that I am a good young Catholic. I have only recently come back to the Church fully, but now I don’t know what I’d do without communion 3 times a week, rosary every day and a good relationship with God. However, the struggle still remains. I just have to remember that I am in this world but not of it. And yeah, if I listen to God instead of myself I will be a happier person in the long run. But it is a struggle. I mean, I can’t be anything but Catholic. The hook up culture makes me sad and feel sick at the same time, the alcoholicism of the students makes me wonder about the emptiness of their lives, the lack of discipline makes me glad I am a fit and academically sound guy.
But in another, hypothetic world if I never was Catholic sometimes I think well would it be that bad if I was like that? I know people are going to say well it shouldn’t be like that you should be happy about the way you are. Don’t get me wrong, I am not jealous and I am happy about my choices. But I wonder about my own choices too.

Am I being self-deceptive thinking casual sex is that bad? That immodesty is that bad? Is it just because I can’t relate to it? But I recognize that I am in this world - I am surrounded by anti-Christian messages, sexuality, anti-Godliness, liberalism - but not of it - I need to keep my head screwed on in the face of all that. It keeps me going. I did try my own way for a while, but all I was left with was a broken bank account, a fat body, failing grades and recently a broken heart. Maybe I should trust less in myself :rolleyes: So thats what I did, I picked up my cross. And I recognize that Jesus said that it was never going to be an easy ride in this world. I guess then, thats fine. But I also wait in joyful hope that my discipline, my love of God and all that I do will actually lead me to have a nice life. A nicer life than the drunks here. A nicer life than my friends who sleep with a different girl every week. A nicer life than the ex who eventually broke it off because I was a “crazy Jesus freak”.

Being a young, faithful Catholic Christian is a unique cross to carry in this modern world. Sometimes I wonder how I would have done 30 years ago :stuck_out_tongue:


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