Novus Ordo & Other Masses

Having taught CCD, attended several CCD Indoctrination classes for instructors and having been Roman Cathoic for 49 years I still am not aquanted with all the new Masses.

I read some of this,"
[left]Q: What are the external signs that prove the New Order is intent on destroying Traditional Catholicism?[/left]
**A: **The exernal signs are many and varied, including, but not limited to: A New Order of the Mass, a New Code of Canon Law, a New Liturgical Calendar, a New Evangelization, a New Catechism, and, most recently, a New Rosary.

[left]Q: For what purpose have these novelties been imposed?[/left]
A: For the purpose of establishing a New Ecumenism, which will allow all denominations and religions to unite without the requirement of conversion to the Catholic Church. The apparent goal is a one-world religion, a “peaceful” co-existence with all religions fused into one, in which God’s Rights and our Duties to Him are subordinated to the Rights of Man, Social Justice, the Dignity of the Human Person, and Liberty of Conscience. “Reconciled diversity” and “unity in diversity” are big watchwords here. This all comes from the heresy of “modernism,” what Pope Saint Pius X called the “synthesis of all heresies” in his 1907 landmark encyclical Pascendi Dominici Gregis, in which the holy Pope strongly condemned it as absolutely destructive of the foundations of the Catholic religion.

[left]Can someone point me to a webpage or in your own words that describes, defines or explains the various Masses, and which ones are to be avoided. WHAT is the NEW ROSARY?[/left]

That info comes from the so-called “Novus Ordo Watch,” a website that takes a hostile position against Pope John Paul II and the Second Vatican Council.

A critique of those Q&A pages can be found here (scroll down to the Thursday, May 29, 2003 entry).

New Masses? There’s only one, really. I think the author of that Q&A’s referring to the Mass according to the third edition of the Roman Missal. It’s basically the Mass that’s normatively celebrated in the Roman rite. Some call it the “Novus Ordo”.

New Rosary? The Pope proposed the Luminous Mysteries more than two years ago.

O.K. Vincent, you are speaking a different language than I am.

One simple question at a time. Is what is called a Novus Ordo Mass the Mass spoken in the language of the country?

What was the name of the Mass we all heard in 1960 in the US?

[quote=Exporter]Is what is called a Novus Ordo Mass the Mass spoken in the language of the country?
[/quote]

Yes, that’s correct. A number of places also celebrate it in Latin.

What was the name of the Mass we all heard in 1960 in the US?

These days it’s often called the “Tridentine” Mass. It’s also called the “Traditional [Latin]” Mass.

Originally Posted by Exporter
Is what is called a Novus Ordo Mass the Mass spoken in the language of the country?
Yes, that’s correct. A number of places also celebrate it in Latin.

Thanks, but you say "a nember of places also celebrate it in Latin.

Is the “it” the English Mass as said today. Pronouns get us confused. Do you have a name for the Mass celebrated in Latin now?

In the above question, I am NOT refering to the Latin Mass of 1960.

The “Novus Ordo” can be celebrated in the vernacular or in Latin. Some places celebrate it (the Novus Ordo Mass) in Latin, i.e. EWTN. The Tridentine Mass is always celebrated in Latin, hence “Traditional Latin Mass.”

[quote=Exporter]Is the “it” the English Mass as said today.
[/quote]

“It” is the Mass as commonly celebrated today, whether it’s celebrated in Latin, Japanese, English, French, etc.

Do you have a name for the Mass celebrated in Latin now?

It might be called “Latin Novus Ordo” in some places. Is that what you’re asking?

A comprison of 1965 Catholics to 2000 Catholics.

novusordowatch.org/stats.htm

:nope: Watch out for this group – they are of the variety of people who are so traditional that they are against Rome, and against our Holy Father. They will try to convince you that Jesus was lying when he said that “the gates of hell will not prevail” against the Church. They would not like that statement, but it’s true, because they feel that the Church has been lost to Satan (“Modernism”) since Vatican II. If they’re right, then Jesus did not tell us the truth when he promised the Church the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit.

They reject all that is not what they consider “Traditional”, everything from the use of the vernacular (ie, English) in the Mass, to the addition of new mysteries to the Rosary, to the focus on ecumenism that our Holy Father has devoted much of his pontificate towards. Anything that they see as in any way “modern” they reject utterly as being of Satan. Basically, to them, anything before 1962 is the “true” Church, and everything that they see as being “changed” after Vatican II is worthless, and in fact, evil.

While they have some valid concerns, they have gone way over the edge and into schism, to the point that they claim that the “New Mass” (not really… same Mass, different Church disciplines regarding it, which the Church does have the authority to change.) is not even valid (that those who attend a “New Mass” are not really receiving the Body and Blood of Jesus in Holy Communion.)

It’s odd, really, because they are just as Protestant as any Lutheran – once you reject one council (or doctrine/dogma) then what in the world keeps you from rejecting the rest of them (or picking and choosing what you want to accept)? Just as those who are outside the Church as “progressive, modern, tolerant liberals” choose to accept only that which fits their idea of a Church, so too do the extreme conservative “traditionalists” also choose only to accept that which fits their idea of a “true” Church. (Please note that my use of the term “traditionalist” refers specifically to those who reject the New Mass and reject the Holy Father – I am not referring to those of us who prefer the TLM but who are obedient to Rome and admit the validity of the current Mass)

People like this are no longer Catholics in good standing, because of their rejection of the Holy Father and the apostolic succession given to him. To them, the See of Peter is vacant.

Also, you will almost never find a happy traditionalist (at least not in my experience). They are always angry and complain about the “betrayal” of the Church… the true joy and peace that comes with Christ is nowhere to be found in the traditionalists I know. :frowning:

Pray for them.

+veritas+

Exporter,

The novus ordo Mass is the Mass we have in our regular parishes today. The Missal was translated and universally put in place in 1973. Some places may have had it earlier, but the GIRM (General Instruction Roman Missal) of 1973 was in place until recently. We currently have a New GIRM and it took a while before it was translated into english. The text of the Mass is still being translated and many of the prayers will change dramitacally back to a more faithful translation of the Latin. (someone will correct me if I did get that exactly right)

The Mass we have at our parishes today is usually said in the language of the society it is serving. Latin responses can be included. If you go to the Vatican be ready for that. If you watch Mass on EWTN you will hear and see how Latin is used.

The 1962 Missal is known as the Indult. This is the Mass you went to as a young child with your parents. Where the entire Mass was in Latin. The priest had his back to you…etc. It is also known as the Traditional Roman Missal, Missal of Pius V and several other names.

Those people who wrongly attack the Current Roman Ordo (Novus Ordo) like to make up stories about all kinds of wacky Masses that have supposively take over. Most of us who have been around a while can get a kick out of these gyrations, because as a long time Catholic, the first time you will hear of these Masses is at a place like here. They are neither common nor licit. The most popular is the clown Mass. Sure these things happen, but they are made out to be common place and that evey parish is doing wacky stuff. The Catholic Church is huge, we will have our share of Crack pots and as in the picture below was taken care of by Rome.

This little clown mass took place in my diocese. Under our new bishop, this will not be allowed. This is the reward you get when you stop whining about the Pauline Mass and actually get to work on trying to get an orthodox replacement. Orthodox priests are being moved up in the ranks, Eucharistic Adoration is being implemented in many churches, our diocesan paper is actually starting to look Catholic, etc., etc., etc.

It’s funny that this is made to look like the norm. This is the same picture posted over and over. I can assure you that the person who took this picture, I know him personally, will not be happy to know that this picture is being used to condemn the Pauline Mass.

BTW, the administrators have asked time and again that full size pictures not be used because they eat up too much room.

bear,

Thanks for confirming what I have always thought. I am not sure why some people think they are going to convince everyone this is commonplace. I live in the largest diocese in the US, you think this stuff would be easy to spot if it was so prevalent. :whacky:

-Ted

:thumbsdown:

[quote=+veritas+]:nope: .…, and against our Holy Father. **…**they feel that the Church has been lost to Satan (“Modernism”) since Vatican II.

+veritas+
[/quote]

Pope Paul the VI said “The smoke of Satan has entered the church” … go figure.

Exporter.

Just for the record, I agree with just about everything on that website. Read the papal encyclicals the website links to - really study them. These are from past popes who are condemning much of what is taking place today.

I believe the Church is going through a very severe crisis in our day, which most Catholics are unaware of - or at least unaware of the reason for the crisis.

Ann Catherin Emmerick described our day to a T. The website gives one of her quotes, but there are many more which perfectly describe our day of “apostacy”. She calls it a “counter-Church”, which is a result of the Churches enemies infiltrating the Church and leading many astray. Pope Pius X warned us of these “enemies within” and of their plans to “reform” the Church based on their erroneous teachings.

Type my name “Robert Siscoe” into a search engine, along with “The problem with the pro-life movement” and read the article I wrote. It was on the SeattleCatholic website. I go into some of the errors of our day, and what the Popes warned us about.

This will make it easier: here’s the link: seattlecatholic.com/article_20020629_The_Problem_with_the_Prolife_Movement.html

[quote=bear06]This little clown mass took place in my diocese. Under our new bishop, this will not be allowed. This is the reward you get when you stop whining about the Pauline Mass and actually get to work on trying to get an orthodox replacement. Orthodox priests are being moved up in the ranks, Eucharistic Adoration is being implemented in many churches, our diocesan paper is actually starting to look Catholic, etc., etc., etc.

It’s funny that this is made to look like the norm. This is the same picture posted over and over. I can assure you that the person who took this picture, I know him personally, will not be happy to know that this picture is being used to condemn the Pauline Mass.

[/quote]

If you think that this is the only picture used with abuses of the mass you are sorely mistaken.

traditio.com/nos.htm

Understand that these are only the pictures they have.
I know I never included any from my old parish and in reading on this site, neither have many other people.

I agree we need to stop complaining and do something, but please don’t stick your head in the sand and say there is nothing wrong.

It’s wrong, very wrong.

We all need to find faithful parishes and stay there. Let the Pseudo-Protestant and Catholic-Lite parishes fall on their own.

[quote=Defensor Fidei]bear,

Thanks for confirming what I have always thought. I am not sure why some people think they are going to convince everyone this is commonplace. I live in the largest diocese in the US, you think this stuff would be easy to spot if it was so prevalent. :whacky:

-Ted
[/quote]

You live in the Los Angeles diocese and you see nothing wrong?
Are you sure?
Maybe it’s just not in your church or it has become so common place that you don’t even know.
That’s what happened in my old parish.

Or hey, maybe you think that Doritos used as matter is okay. That’s what happened at Religious Education Congress, Cathedral, Los Angeles, California- October 2003.

Robert,

I agree with your thesis. Only time will tell, Piers Compton stated it eloquently, a conversation between a priest and him.

For there is nothing more golden in the world than a Roman dawn. Gold dust, lighting the past more surely than it does the present, filters through the air and settles, like a hesitant touch, on Maderna’s fagade with its bold Roman letters, turning its brown and ochre tints into gold. Dust motes, where the first light catches them, are turned into gold that touches the base of Caligula’s obelisk and breaks in spendour over the cobbles; over the statues of the saints on the colonnade, and the dome that gradually wears to white; over the space before the basilica surrounded by Bernini’s giant columns, as once the legions surrounded the levelled spears that rose in envy of the Roman Thing; water from the fountains, whenever a breeze ruffles it, falls away in drops of gold.

The angle of the stick was inviting me to look over Vatican Hill. `That’s the way dawn will come, over the city, over the Church. Don’t you believe it?’

I only half nodded.

`What you’ve written will pass, like a holiday or a slow fever. But the promise that was given to Peter’-and he pointed to the central figure on the colonnade-'will not pass. It cannot. The fissure in the Rock will be closed. Dawn will come again. Don’t you believe it?ff

‘Yes,’ I agreed, influenced perhaps by his sad eyes and the swing of his shillelagh. `Dawn will come again.’

But will it be a false dawn?

Fogny

[quote=netmilsmom]You live in the Los Angeles diocese and you see nothing wrong?
Are you sure?
[/quote]

Many people see nothing wrong … because they do not know what RIGHT is anymore.

And it is forums like this that make that so painfully obvious. Some of these threads and posts are absolutely hysterical!!! In fact when people want to know what is wrong with The Catholic Church … I send them here to have a look! LOL

Granted there are a few you DO know God and DO know their religion - most however do NOT.

I find it especially funny when people say “How do you know what God likes, or wants”

Considering this is one of the first lessons of Catechism - KNOW, love and serve God. ALL should KNOW God … but they don’t and for some silly reason they think it impossible!!

[quote=netmilsmom]If you think that this is the only picture used with abuses of the mass you are sorely mistaken.

traditio.com/nos.htm

Understand that these are only the pictures they have.
I know I never included any from my old parish and in reading on this site, neither have many other people.

I agree we need to stop complaining and do something, but please don’t stick your head in the sand and say there is nothing wrong.

It’s wrong, very wrong.

We all need to find faithful parishes and stay there. Let the Pseudo-Protestant and Catholic-Lite parishes fall on their own.
[/quote]

Nothing is wrong. :stuck_out_tongue:

The Gates of Hell will never prevail against the Church. But that does not mean Peter will always be faithful. As was with Pope Honorius I. newadvent.org/cathen/07452b.htm A Pope is A Pope no matter how good or bad we (or a Council later on) perceive him to be.

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