Novus Ordo


#1

Novus Ordo Missae: Is it valid, it it a sacrilege, can I attend it if nothing else is available? If that is truely all I have to choose from,no other Tradional Church close by, Going to Mass there ,would it still satisfy my obligation for the Sabith? I think they would agree it does. But what do Tradional think? I belong to The Society of Saint Pius X. Very few around. and may have to move where there aren’t any.:confused:


#2

The Catholic Church teaches that the Novus Ordo is just as valid as traditional forms. Pope Paul VI and the Church had the authority to make changes.


#3

The OF Mass is perfectly valid, perfectly licit, and perfectly fulfills your Sunday obligation.


#4

Ok to start with unless you are a priest or bishop you do not belong to the SSPX,you maybe attending mass at their Chapel, but you do not belong to it. Next the Novus Ordo Missae is very much valid, you can attend and if you are in a state of grace may receive the Eucharist. Next we are not obligation by Church law to the Sabbath, but we are obligated to come together for the Mass on the Lords day and Holy Days.
I recommend that you go to the nearest Priest at a non SSPX parish and talk to them you seem to be confused about a great many things.


#5

Since the Pope himself celebrates that form of the Mass, I would say it’s valid unless one really believes they are more Catholic than the Pope.


#6

Ok to start with unless you are a priest or bishop you do not belong to the SSPX,you maybe attending mass at their Chapel, but you do not belong to it. Next the Novus Ordo Missae is very much valid, you can attend and if you are in a state of grace may receive the Eucharist. Next we are not obligation by Church law to the Sabbath, but we are obligated to come together for the Mass on the Lords day and Holy Days.
I recommend that you go to the nearest Priest at a non SSPX parish and talk to them you seem to be confused about a great many things.


#7

Hello, I am a member of the SSPX and I would not reccommend going to the Novus Ordo mass. There have been too many changes (as well as individual changes that the priest might have made on his own) to cause doubt as to the validity of the mass. They changed the words of concecration which is a BIG deal. There also may be lay people handling the host, cleaning the sacred vessels, immodesty in dress, innappropriate music, etc. which can all lead to the loss of faith through indifference.

I would never say, and cannot say with any authority, that “this mass” or “that mass” is invalid, but the doubts are too many and the offense to God is too real to attend the Novus Ordo. I moved my family to a town with a traditional mass, and I can see everyday the fruits of doing so.

God bless on your journey!


#8

If you go to Novus Ordo please do not receive the body of Jesus in your hands!


#9

The words of consecration were never changed. There was, for a while, a very imperfect english translation, but this has since been remedied.

Also, I have to question the reasoning that says, I know I have a moral obligation, binding me to attend a valid Catholic Mass every Sunday under pain of mortal sin, I know there is a Mass down the Street that the Church tells me is perfectly valid, but in my own personal opinion I think it has changed too much so I, because of my own judgement am going to risk committing a mortal sin and not attend what the Church tells me is a perfectly valid and licit Mass. We’re talking about being under pain **of mortal **sin here.

Also, if you think the Novus Ordo is invalid because it is so different from the tridentine… I must question whether you are aware of the many Eastern Catholic Liturgies that have been around for **a very **long time, certainly from well before Trent, have always been considered perfectly valid. One of which even uses completely different words for consecration than is used in the Roman Rite. Be very careful before you take it upon yourself to judge those things which only the Church has the power to decide, (such as the validity of a particular form of the Mass).


#10

The words of consecration in the Tridentine Mass contains “mystérium fidei” ,the norvus ordo does not! It has nothing to do with English.

And I just want to note that the SSPX tells that the Norvus Ordo is valid.


#11

Also, OP, please be aware that depending on where you go to a Novus Ordo Mass you will find it celebrated in many different ways. It is vvery likely that it will be celebrated in a way completely foreign to you (ie, style of Church, music, more noise, lack of receiving Eucharist kneeling on the tongue, being said in the vernacular etc). But please be aware that these are all allowed by the Church in different circumstances and also that none of them are linked necessarily to the Novus Ordo. There are Novus Ordo Masses that are said in a much more traditional style, in latin, facing the altar, with altar rail, gregorian chant etc, etc. So please if you attend and find the Mass to be so completely foreign to what you are used to remember that a very large number of those differences have nothing to do with the Novus Ordo as such.


#12

Well thank you for that correction! :slight_smile: I was not aware that that was part of the words of consecration in the EF. However my point still stands about the possibility for Mass to be valid without the words of consecration being exactly what they are in the EF (tridentine form). One of the Eastern Catholic Rites( which has been acknowledged as valid for centuries) doesn’t even use the Roman Canon from what I understand. It is not for us to judge what constitutes a valid Mass, but for the Church alone.


#13

Opinions are not what you want here.
You want Church teaching, which some previous posts have and some don’t
How does the authority structure of the Church answer your questions?
Have you spoken to the catechist at your local parish?
How about the priest at that parish or other priests?
The diocesan office/Bishop?
Have you read any papal encyclicals or the documents of Vatican 2?
I can assure you the greater sin is placing your own pride and opinion above Church teaching, not attending the Mass. :confused::confused::confused:


#14

the Church says the Ordinary Form is valid,who are you or anyone else to question that. :confused:


#15

NONE of the Eastern and Oriental Churches uses the Roman Canon. None ever has.


#16

Again, thanks for the correction. :slight_smile:

Gosh I just seem to be getting it all wrong today. :slight_smile:

I think what I meant is that I heard there was an Eastern Catholic Liturgy in which they do not even have the words “This is my body” and “This is my blood”. I am perfectly willing to be corrected on this as well, :slight_smile: but I think that was what I was trying to get at by using the word Roman Canon, the specific words of consecration from the Roman Rite aren’t even used in some of the Eastern Rites.


#17

Valid means that bread and vine change to the body and blood of Jesus. The SSPX recognize that the Novus Ordo is valid. A schismatic sect can also make a valid mass if the priest had a valid ordination. The problem for the SSPX is, that the Norvus Ordo contains lots of thinks, that has been seen as sacrilegious in the past.


#18

Not to worry. Some days are just worse than others. :wink:

While the Institution Narratives used in the various Anaphorae in the Eastern and Oriental Churches do differ somewhat from that of the Roman Canon, all are similar. And all are easily recognizable for what they are.

The one Anaphora that lacks an Institution Narrative is the Anaphora of Ss Addai & Mari, as commonly used by the Assyrian Church of the East (not in communion with Rome). The Chaldean Church (which is in communion with Rome) uses the same Anaphora but with the inclusion of an Institution Narrative.


#19

[quote="Andre1000, post:8, topic:291037"]
If you go to Novus Ordo please do not receive the body of Jesus in your hands!

[/quote]

Do you have some reasoning or authoritative teaching to present in this regard?


#20

mystérium fidei or in English " the mystery if faith is in the Novus Ordo as well. Your statement is frnakly just false. from the USCCB WEB SITE of the 3rd translation of the Roman Missal

“TAKE THIS, ALL OF YOU, AND DRINK FROM IT,
FOR THIS IS THE CHALICE OF MY BLOOD,
THE BLOOD OF THE NEW AND ETERNAL COVENANT,
WHICH WILL BE POURED OUT FOR YOU AND FOR MANY
FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.
DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME.
He shows the chalice to the people, places it on the corporal, and genuflects in adoration.
6. Then he says:
The mystery of faith.
And the people continue, acclaiming:
We proclaim your Death, O Lord,
and profess your Resurrection
until you come again.
Or:
When we eat this Bread and drink this Cup,
we proclaim your Death, O Lord,
until you come again.
Or:
Save us, Savior of the world,
for by your Cross and Resurrection
you have set us free.”

Even before the new translation it was there but the priest would say Let us proclaim the mystery of faith instead of just The Mystery of Faith.

If you are going to try and degraded the Mass of Pope Paul the VI at least be correct.


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