Nun's music sends message against rebuke by Vatican

post-gazette.com/stories/news/us/nuns-music-sends-message-against-rebuke-by-vatican-664514/

No direct mention of God in her music. Because why would a nun want to do that?

This in itself shows why the need for reform is vital. LCWR have gone off track

“Rise Up! Sisters Rise Up!”

“We are faithful loving and wise”

From the lyric.

Amen to that! I remember reading somewhere about a LCWR keynote speech in which Sr. Laurie Brink, O.P. spoke of “four different general ‘directions’ in which religious congregations seem to be moving. One of the directions described is “sojourning,” which she says “involves moving beyond the Church, even beyond Jesus."… Boy, these sisters need to be reeled in and I mean real, real fast! Their very souls depend on it.

I think part of the problem is that many, in the hierarchy of the church are afraid of dealing directly with this situation, because throughout the entire history of mankind, any man who argues with a woman will lose the argument. Any married man can tell you that! I seriously think that the hierarchy is afraid not only so much as it having an adverse effect upon vocations, but if pushed, these women will cause a schism to happen. They do seem to have some support- especially among the so-called “cafeteria Catholics”.

Are all congregations of sisters members of LCWR ?

Are there orders that are not members ? I know I get some mail from one congregation in TN or somewhere that is growing with big %s but truly is small in number still. Wondered if there is a conservative wing of nuns that are not part of LCWR.

Thanks.

From LCWR website; The Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR) is an association of the leaders of congregations of Catholic women religious in the United States. The conference has nearly 1500 members, who represent more than 80 percent of the 57,000 women religious in the United States. :eek:

So who are the 20% ? I’d like to find a list.

Many are part of Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Major_Superiors_of_Women_Religious

CMSWR members differ from those of the LCWR in having “major superiors” rather than “leaders” and in wearing recognizable religious habits. Their institutes have only 20% of the women religious of the United States, but they are younger, and growing in numbers.4]

According to the 2009 Study on Recent Vocations by the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate, the average median age of nuns and sisters in CMSWR institutes was 60, compared with 74 for those in LCWR; among those joining CMSWR institutes only 15% were over 40, compared with 56% for LCWR institutes; 43% of the CMSWR institutes had at least 5 novices, compared with 9% of the LCWR institutes.5]6]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_Conference_of_Women_Religious

The membership of the congregations in the LCWR has been declining rapidly in recent years, both through a lack of any new members in most member congregations and the increasing age of the women that remain. According to the Study on Recent Vocations, the average median age of women in LCWR institutes is 74. Among those who have entered in the past 15 years, 56 percent are over 30.5] For these reasons, the membership of the congregations in the LCWR declined from 60,642 in 2007, to 46,451 in 2011, to an estimated 43,664 in 2012

This might be true, for all I know. If so, it will, in time, cease to be so because the rebellious orders are dying out. I read where the average age in LCWR is 74. Some of the newer orders of more traditional sisters who are faithful to the Magesterium are, indeed, growing rapidly, but from a small base. There will undoubtedly be a time, not too far from now, when the older orders are defunct, but the new orders will not have had time to grow sufficiently to make up the numbers.

Just because I like this order, I am posting their home page here. Go through it and see how young they are. They are faithful to the Church, actually do charitable work “hands on”, and wear a traditional habit. I have seen a photo of the main group of them, and I would say there are maybe no more than 100 of them, with perhaps some more in another location. But still, it’s a beginning. sistersoflife.org/

I do donate to this order, and I encourage people to do so. I very much believe in what they are doing. These newer orders don’t have a lot of money like the old ones do. Eventually, I believe the old ones will just turn into private foundations run by laypeople, supporting left-wing causes.

The Vatican has always moved very slow in most ways. What they have done already is a big deal, even though it took awhile to get there. I highly doubt they’re worried about “losing the argument”. There is no argument. They are right, and they have the authority to claim to be so, and they have the authority to discipline. The nuns on the bus don’t have a leg to stand on. If they leave the Church, they will be like any other Protestant (or New Age spiritualist as it seems to be headed that way with some).

Not at all. Many congregations are members of the CMSWR --Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious.

Sadly, many LCWR orders seem to be stuck in the protest mode of the 1960’s. They might as well still be singing Simon and Garfunkel songs. Maybe they still are. There are many new vibrant young orders of sisters in the CMSWR.

I believe that Sr. Laurie Brink in her lecture described each of four “directions”. She then declares her preferred “direction” as being #4 "Reconciliation for the Sake of Mission”. Sister described sojourning but does not espouse it. I do not think that she needs to be “reeled in” based on this lecture.

Curious. Are you saying that the hierarchy of the Church (unmarried men) has never silenced female religious?

The potential schismatics are who, exactly? The women of LCWR? And you know that the so-called “cafeteria Catholics” support the potential schismatics, how?

The members of LCWR are old and getting older and no new members are coming into their orders. But look at some of the vibrant communities like the Dominican Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist. They tout a different kind of crisis…they’ve had so many new novices they were unable to house them all. Young, vibrant and traditional…most of all happy in their vocations…no ranting against the Church here:

Through profession of the vows of chastity, poverty, and obedience, along with a contemplative emphasis on Eucharistic adoration and Marian devotion, our community exists for the salvation of souls and the building of the Church throughout the world. As Dominicans, our primary apostolate is the education and formation of young people. We remain open to engaging the modern culture with new forms of evangelization in order to preach the Gospel and teach the Truth.

sistersofmary.org/index.php

Have you listened to ALL her music or just the one song? She’s been writing music for quite some time.

I loved the video for that song, looking at all the Sisters who are out there every day actually living the Gospel-caring for the sick, feeding the poor, visiting the imprisoned. It was a good reminder of all the Sisters that taught me, made me a Catholic and brought me back to the Church-despite the attitudes I’ve received from my fellow Catholics.

I’m not surprised that they wouldn’t be popular here though-but luckily they don’t answer to any of us, only to God.

They sound like yet another order that leans toward a new age mindset…shedding the habit and resisting their Patriarch.

A quibble: schism is when a group of believers severs communion with the church and attempts to form a separate church. Sometimes this actually happens (like with the Polish National Catholic Church, which oddly is an American phenomenon!). At others, the effort fails due to lack of apostolic succession (Anglicans).

But when a group rejects basic christian teaching and embaces diametrically opposed beliefs, that’s called ‘apostasy.’ Quite honestly, the nuns most in danger of leaving the church would be committing apostasy, not schism. And one could argue that some of them have committed it already. It’s not a brush that should be used to paint the entire LCWR, however. Weeds and wheat grow together throughout the church. Don’t burn the whole field down over the weeds.

lol, if doughy nuns are in a position to wield sex as a weapon against bishops, we’re in a tough spot.

I doubt schism is a concern though, at least now. The Church doesn’t care much if people leave and start their own “congregations” or whatever, because it knows they aren’t Churches in the sacramental sense. If there was a bishop involved in this, that’d be a different story. That’s why the SSPX is getting so much more attention than the LCWR.

I’ve never heard any of her music, just going by what she was quoted as saying in the article. And they don’t have to answer to anyone but God concerning the state of their own soul, no, but concerning the actions and statements of their order, they very well do have to answer to someone other than God, and that’s the authority of the Church. Sorry, but if the Church officially finds issue with what they are doing, there’s an issue. This isn’t to say the Church is trying to “kick them out” or in anyway want them to leave the order or the Church itself, in fact I’m sure it’s the very opposite, and therefore it would only be better for their order to make the reforms the Church is instructing (not asking) them to make. Is it really so hard to accept that the Magesterium actually knows better than they do, and as their established authority they have to obey?

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