[quote="ChemicalBean, post:12, topic:201742"]
Of course, you would probably be against it, but our private insurance system actually drives up the costs of health care. Eliminate that through a single-payer system, or at least provide true competition through a public option, and...voila! Savings! Cut the fat and lower the cost for all. Then the employer doesn't even have to meddle with paying directly for health care.
"True competition"? Are you serious? Competition is about providing the best service for the lowest cost. The government is neither about good service nor low cost. People complain all the time about corporate welfare, and they are right. For example, people were up in arms about the subsidies Airbus received, making it difficult, if not impossible for Boeing to compete. What you are talking about is a government version of Airbus, but on the healthcare side of things.
It isn't competition if it costs more and provides poor service. It is a subsidy.
[quote="ChemicalBean, post:12, topic:201742"]
Perhaps YOU missed my point. I never said anything about Obama's health care plan having benefits magically appear out of thin air. I did, however, say that the employer-in-question's workers should have formed a union - mainly to have bargained for said benefits, including health care.
No, I think you are still missing the point. I think Dawn's example showed what would happen when Obamacare takes effect. It forces many companies to either 1) stay in business, 2) cut benefits, or 3) cut employees. Creating a union does not change the financial outlook, and demanding benefits would cause the employer to either close shop or layoff people.
Contrary to how many employees view things, companies are not awash in cash. They don't just hoard millions of dollars they make in some secret vault where the CEO and his cronies sleep on beds of dollars, or light cigars with $100 bills. Companies have budgets. And usually they have a budget for salaries and benefits. For the sake of example, let's say a company has a budget of $8M a year for salaries and benefits. The employees unionize and demand a 20% increase in their pay and benefits. Suddenly the companies salary budget goes from $8M to $9.6M. Where is that company to get that extra $1.6M? It has to take it from some other budget. Customer service? Maintenance? Inventory? Quality control?
Now, imagine Obamacare having the same effect. My father, after he retired from the Navy, started his own boat repair business. It wasn't large, but he had, on average, about 10 employees (6 mechanics, 2 office staff, and 2 gophers). Mechanics where the highest paid (when I was in high school at a boat repair shop, they were making about $16 to $20 per hour). The shop was open 44 hours a week (Tue-Sat 8-5, Mon 1-5), and close for one week between Christmas and New Years, with a smattering of other holidays--say 2 weeks total. Let's say that the mechanics were making $20/hour, the staff $12/hour, and the gophers $9/hour (minimum wage in WA). They also received all holidays paid, plus an extra week of vacation (total of about 3 weeks). That is a weekly payroll of $7128. Given 52 weeks in a year, that is a yearly payroll of $370k. This is larger than the $250k that Obamacare sets for the threshold that mandates coverage. Note that in this example it was only the pay. It didn't take into account FICA or the employer share of Social Security and Medicare. This also didn't take into account the cost of any benefits. And this didn't even take into account my father's own salary. Nor did it consider other costs, such as B&O taxes, licensing, training, or operating expenses. (Note: My father did provide medical benefits to all the employees except the gophers, who were usually high school students.)
Were the employees to unionize, where would my father find the funds to meet any demands for increased pay or benefits? Eliminate training? Cut hours? Increase prices? And what do any of these do to the company's ability to provide quality service and a good price?
So, when Obamacare takes effect, what choice would a company like this, with no healthcare benefits, have? Where would it suddenly find the funds to provide those benefits? They could cut an employee. They could reduce hours of operation. They could raise prices. Or as Dawn said, they "will not give employees paid vacations anymore (they can take the time off as given now-but won't receive pay for the time), no paid sick days, nor will they receive pay increases-even if the Cost-of-Living goes up (and it does each year), and-no more bonuses at Christmas."
THAT is the point. Creating a union does not change any of those numbers.