Obama: Why I won't say 'Islamic terrorism'


#21

Well here’s one by the Pope

On a flight home from a five-day visit to Poland for World Youth Day celebrations, Pope Francis was asked about the murder of Father Jacques Hamel, the 86-year-old French priest killed by two men linked to the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS/ISIL) as he celebrated morning Mass in a Catholic church in Normandy on Tuesday.

“You told us that all religions seek peace, yet he was killed in the name of Islam,” a reporter said, referring to comments the pope had made en route to Poland on Wednesday. “Why do you never mention the word ‘Islam’ when you speak about terrorism?”

“I don’t like speaking of Islamic violence because I come across violence every day when I leaf through the newspapers here in Italy,” Pope Francis replied, according to a translation of his remarks published by La Stampa.

“You read about someone who’s killed his girlfriend or his mother-in-law, and these are violent baptized Catholics.”

“If I talk about ‘Islamic’ violence should I speak about ‘Catholic’ violence too? Not all Muslims are violent,” he said. cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/pope-islamic-terrorism-there-are-violent-people-almost-all-religions

Also;

Co-Chair of the National Catholic-Muslim Dialogue Calls for Positive Engagement with Different Faith Traditions

WASHINGTON—Archbishop Blase J. Cupich of Chicago, Catholic co-chairman of the National Catholic-Muslim Dialogue, issued the following statement on the report Danger & Dialogue: American Catholic Public Opinion and Portrayals of Islam, recently published by Georgetown University’s Center for Muslim – Christian Understanding.

Full statement follows.
A Statement from Archbishop Blase J. Cupich
Catholic Co-Chairman of the National Catholic-Muslim Dialogue

The report “Danger & Dialogue: American Catholic Public Opinion and Portrayals of Islam,” recently published by the Bridge Initiative, a research project on Islamophobia based in Georgetown University’s Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Center for Muslim - Christian Understanding, raises serious questions about how Catholics view their Muslim brothers and sisters. WASHINGTON—Archbishop Blase J. Cupich of Chicago, Catholic co-chairman of the National Catholic-Muslim Dialogue, issued the following statement on the report Danger & Dialogue: American Catholic Public Opinion and Portrayals of Islam, recently published by Georgetown University’s Center for Muslim – Christian Understanding.

Full statement follows.
A Statement from Archbishop Blase J. Cupich
Catholic Co-Chairman of the National Catholic-Muslim Dialogue

The report “Danger & Dialogue: American Catholic Public Opinion and Portrayals of Islam,” recently published by the Bridge Initiative, a research project on Islamophobia based in Georgetown University’s Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Center for Muslim - Christian Understanding, raises serious questions about how Catholics view their Muslim brothers and sisters.

Jim


#22

Pope Francis said “I don’t like speaking about Islamic violence”
He didn’t say there isn’t Islamic violence.

Pope Francis said “If I talk about ‘Islamic’ violence”
He is saying in general…there is Islamic violence but not all Muslims are violent.

There are violent people all over the world but not all people are violent.

There are people all over the world that drink alcohol but not are drunkards.

There are people all over the world that experience sexuality but not all are perverts.

There are people all over the world that work but some are lazy.

There are generous people all over the world but some some are greedy.

Etc.

You see…I can make general statements too without pinning myself to a particular area or problem.

I’m not discounting or disputing what Pope Francis said…only equating and putting a value on the generalized statement he made to a reporter several hundred feet in the air.


#23

My own analogy…forth coming.


#24

Both Obama and Pope Francis are world leaders and their every word is scrutinized, therefore they do not want to give the impression of denigrating large swathes of people at a time. Quite rightly so, I do think however that Obama does rather ignore and minimize the perverse distortion of religion that drives many of today’s terrorists.


#25

The Pope is saying essentially the same thing Obama is.

He’s not going to tag the entire religion by labeling those who claim to be of that religion and carry out acts of violence.

The Pope used the analogy of Catholics who commit murder.

Jim


#26

I don’t think that is necessary. All that is needed today is to listen to what vast majority of Muslim scholars are saying today. If Islam was interpreted differently in the past, what is that to us now?

There are varying levels of interpretation. If I were a non-Christian ruler and saw a Christian army headed towards me, I might investigate Christianity to find out what the religion taught.

Now you are bringing in a separate criteria - actions. Whereas the comment I originally responded to was about teachings. But if you want to talk about actions, the vast majority of the Muslim faithful are not forming an army headed towards you.

Yes, but people don’t use it because it is so obviously a prophecy and not a command. More often, people use the actual commands in the OT, which were, however, very specific.

It is obviously a prophecy to you and me, because we are Christian and understand the context of Paul’s letters. But a non-Christian who has had only a passing acquaintance with Christianity - and especially if he is looking for excuses to denigrate Christianity - might very well try to make that faulty point. Just like non-Muslims might form their own interpretation of the Koran to infer that Islam commands violent subjugation. The only valid way to prove that Islam teaches violent subjugation is either to (1.) cite a majority of Muslim leaders who say that, or (2.) to demonstrate a general, wide-spread behavior consistent with that command. Can you do either one?


#27

Once when the snow was 2-3 feet deep and had formed a hard crust on the surface I took a walk from my home to the back of my property with only boots on my feet. It was an interesting experience. Sometimes the crust gave way and my right leg would plunge deep into the snow. Sometimes it was the left leg. Sometimes I’d go several steps and remain on the top crust. By the time I’d returned to my home I concluded there was no way of knowing which step would keep me on the surface or cause me to sink. Overall my sense of securely walking was broken and I yearned to walk the path again with my LL Bean snowshoes.

I think this experience of mine can be used to explain the over all desire some have to apply meaning and definition to current terrorism. Most people touched by terrorism today are simple people with few ways to express concern. Explanations and boundaries given by world class authorities isn’t really quelling the fear though. The sheep aren’t buying it this time.You can see it.

Yes, Pope Francis and Obama are pretty much saying the same thing.
Yes, neither is rightfully going to tag an entire religious body unworthy.

But no…neither addresses the uncertainty, sinking and terrifying depths that hearts, minds and bodies experience with each act of terror.


#28

I’ve always thought Obama makes great sense on this issue. He handles it with a lot of wisdom and understanding of the global landscape. Truth be told, Middle Eastern terrorists have been terrorizing and killing folks for no good reason since I was in middle school (1970s) and they’ve killed way more Muslims than any other group of people. The connectedness of the world now gives them the ability to kill outside of their time zone and that is a difficult reality to combat.


#29

Goes back 1400 years.

youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y


#30

Have you not posted a link to this video of Bill Warner and his rather reductionist view of history before.


#31

Most people touched by terrorism today are simple people with few ways to express concern.

Quoting myself :o

I came back and read what I said and think that simple regular people are going to express themselves on US presidential election day this November.

I never intended to make this a plug for any candidate. You know…only one is clear and contrasting to Pope Francis and Obama on this. The sheep want clarity in direction…the precision of a staff and rod…not generalizations.


#32

After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.


#33

I have no evidence about who the “vast majority of Moslem scholars” are, much less what they are teaching.

If Islam was interpreted differently in the past, what is that to us now?

Considering that a sufficient number of Moslems are acting in accord with the violent interpretation to disrupt the entire world, I think it’s rather important to us today.

Now you are bringing in a separate criteria - actions. Whereas the comment I originally responded to was about teachings. But if you want to talk about actions, the vast majority of the Muslim faithful are not forming an army headed towards you.

I bring in actions for 2 reasons: 1. It is in their writings that Mohhamed set an example to be emulated; and 2. Their actions arise from the teachings.

It is obviously a prophecy to you and me, because we are Christian and understand the context of Paul’s letters. But a non-Christian who has had only a passing acquaintance with Christianity - and especially if he is looking for excuses to denigrate Christianity - might very well try to make that faulty point.

Faulty to the point of inanity.

Just like non-Muslims might form their own interpretation of the Koran to infer that Islam commands violent subjugation.

You have come up with one sentence which you think some person could twist the meaning of sufficiently to claim that Christians advocate forced conversion, despite lack of context and lack of any evidence that any Christian has ever interpreted the verse that way.

There are many parts of the Koran and the Hadith which advocate violence and which explain how that violence is to be set in life. Moreover, The history of Islamic violence backs up that interpretation. It’s not just a bunch of looney non-Moslems poring over the texts to back up a faulty interpretation; it’s the interpretation by which Islamic history has been molded, along with some of our own history.

The only valid way to prove that Islam teaches violent subjugation is either to (1.) cite a majority of Muslim leaders who say that, or (2.) to demonstrate a general, wide-spread behavior consistent with that command. Can you do either one?

Read Moslem history and the second shows right up. Within 10 years of the beginning of Moslem violence, they had taken over the entire Arab peninsula. within 120 years, their conquests stretched from India to the Pyrenees.


#34

…as in the Dark Night of the Soul? I accept that but I will continue to search until election day because in my estimation, this election will determine the history of my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren. God’s hand is over all but we must do our part and for good and right reasons.


#35

I think it is wrong when discussing violence to hold as a starting belief that Christianity and Islam are equal.

I think a hyper sense of equality in the west has attempted to make itself a replacement moral system from which to judge issues.

People believe it is fair and just for certain things to be equal, so they assume, talk and advocate for these things as being equal and consider those that do not share this belief as being immoral and misguided.

I think somewhere along the line sanity and truth are jettisoned in order to hold onto the hyper sense of equality.


#36

The only sense of equality I have attempted to hold is that if only Christians get to say what Christianity teaches and interpret Christian texts, then only Muslims get to say what Islam teaches and interpret Muslim texts. I make no claim of equality between these two religions other than that one point.


#37

People are dying and this is the stand he takes…

There is one good thing. I’m a trump supporter, but no matter who wins in November we will have a better situation for fighting terrorism. Islamic or otherwise.


#38

Even if you believe that Islamic Terrorism is an entirely appropriate term to use, there is a entirely pragmatic reason not to say so. And that is to avoid alienating potential Islamic allies in the fight against terrorism. The terrorists would dearly love for us to cede the entire Islamic world to their side. It would be foolish for us to give them that present. Logic dictates that we should try to isolate the terrorists as much as possible.


#39

LeafbyNiggle, The ‘believers’ will weigh in on that concept this November.


#40

Read “Eucharistic Miracles” by Joan Carroll Cruz.


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