Hi all, I’m having a little trouble figuring out when an occasion to sin is actually a mortal sin itself. For example, if a person who knew that robbing a bank was wrong and wanted to do it, but once he got to the bank had a change of heart completely on his own (so nothing else factored into why he didn’t rob it) would this be a mortal sin?
It would not be a sin because the action was not committed.
Planning a bank robbery but not completing it is not the same as looking at porn but not completing having sex.
That would not be completely correct. It can yes be a sin.
Sins are not only regarding external actions.
I imagine you meant that the near occasion of sinful action Y was not yet the sinful action Y.
Just added that for clarity. See my later post for more on near occasions if you wish.
All examples there are seriously sinful.
(re-posting an older post of mine)
Occasions of sin…
There are all sorts of remote occasions of sin in life…all sorts of possible good things that one can do --where there is a possibility that some temptation and occasion of sin may come.
Normally we are not “obliged” to avoid “remote” occasions of sin.
We simply cannot avoid all such things nor are we usually obliged to do so. We would have to knock ourselves unconscious…
What then is a “near” occasion of mortal sin that we are to avoid especially?
It is not simply temptation (though let us seek to avoid temptations).
A near occasion of mortal sin is such where one would generally falls into mortal sin -one generally commits a mortal sin (or even always!)–or is what is likely to cause one to commit a particular mortal sin now. Due to the nature of thing itself or ones particular personal weakness.
Though there can at times be good reasons to be in them…ones confessor can guide one or those that cannot be avoided (involuntary) (necessary occasions…which one still tries to make more remote…)
Those are general principles one can apply. Ones confessor can guide one. In specifics.
So can it be sinful to put oneself into a near occasion of mortal sin? Or remain in one? Yes. (it may be venial or even mortal or yes even not a sin depending on the reasons and particular danger…talk with your confessor about this).
A clear example of when such would be a mortal sin could be -(with full knowledge and deliberate consent) when I am morally certain that if I put myself into circumstance Y that I will commit mortal sin Z. And I do so with that needed knowledge and consent for a mortal sin.
Ones confessor can advise.
Thanks for the help guys! I understand what you mean here, bc watching porn is already sinful itself. If using the porn example for my question I would ask you… Say a person gets on a porn website, but then realizes it isn’t a good idea and logs off. I would lean towards maybe just a venial sin there, but what is your opinion?
Yeah I read this thread earlier but I couldn’t quite understand it. My mind works better with real world examples. But I appreciate the reply
I believe that is wrong. How could God hold something that you did not do against you? He is not a cruel tyrant.
The planning of the serious robbery is a grave sin. As another example, preparing for fornication is also a grave sin, even though the grave act of fornication fails to occur.
Thought is sinful just as the act or omission is. Catechism:
1853 Sins can be distinguished according to their objects, as can every human act; or according to the virtues they oppose, by excess or defect; or according to the commandments they violate. They can also be classed according to whether they concern God, neighbor, or oneself; they can be divided into spiritual and carnal sins, or again as sins in thought, word, deed, or omission. The root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man."128 But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.
Catechism, the saints , and the Bible says mortal sin can be committed in thoughts alone also.
A decision in thoughts to commit a mortal sin, under the three conditions is a mortal sin
And needs to be said in confession
As others may have indicated, even if you didn’t commit the act, you nevertheless harbored the malevolence needed to commit that act. Thus, you would still need to repent and confess.
For example: When I was addicted to masturbation, I often spent many hours constructing the perfect ‘scene’ that I could masturbate to. Even when I couldn’t find the time to commit masturbation, the active intent to commit it, as well as using my **time **and **energy **in preparation for it, was enough for me to merit punishment from God.
In your example…just the thoughts are stimulating & therefore sinful without completing the act.
I don’t believe planning a robbery is that stimulating ( it could be ) but if you decide it’s wrong & don’t follow through…it’s not a sin but the desire should be confessed to a priest to prevent a rerun.
It depends on the thought. If the thought was meant to offend God, then it would be a sin.
Yeah I get that, it in your example you only didn’t sin bc something prevented you from doing it… NOT BC YOU RESISTED TEMPTATION.
An analogous example for my question would be: Say you want to masturbate and you get on a porn site, but then by your free will and own conscious you logged off the site and don’t do anything. Would younsay that is a sin?
Your just not seeing the full picture.
I note that yes it can be a sin to remain in or enter into a near occasion of sin. See my longer post above that should help clear things up for you. forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=14060512&postcount=6
We are talking about a DIFFERENT sin.
It is very important to understand the principles behind any “real world examples” to be able to apply them to many things.
Read it again and insert a grave matter (lust, serious theft etc) into the what was noted. That should help.
That is yes* one *way to sin in thought.
The Church Teaches though that one does not need to intend to offend God in order to sin.
It can be for all sorts of reasons.
The thought to do what is sinful is also sinful. For example, envy not followed by theft, is still the sin of envy. For lust in general, sixth commandment covers acts and ninth commandment covers thoughts.
Three kinds of internal sin are usually distinguished:
[LIST]*]delectatio morosa, i.e. the pleasure taken in a sinful thought or imagination even without desiring it;
*]gaudium, i.e. dwelling with complacency on sins already committed; and
*]desiderium, i.e. the desire for what is sinful.[/LIST]
An efficacious desire, i.e. one that includes the deliberate intention to realize or gratify the desire, has the same malice, mortal or venial, as the action which it has in view. An inefficacious desire is one that carries a condition, in such a way that the will is prepared to perform the action in case the condition were verified. When the condition is such as to eliminate all sinfulness from the action, the desire involves no sin: e.g. I would gladly eat meat on Friday, if I had a dispensation; and in general this is the case whenever the action is forbidden by positive law only.
The pleasure taken in a sinful thought (delectatio, gaudium) is, generally speaking, a sin of the same kind and gravity as the action which is thought of. Much, however, depends on the motive for which one thinks of sinful actions. The pleasure, e.g. which one may experience in studying the nature of murder or any other crime, in getting clear ideas on the subject, tracing its causes, determining the guilt etc., is not a sin; on the contrary, it is often both necessary and useful. The case is different of course where the pleasure means gratification in the sinful object or action itself. And it is evidently a sin when one boasts of his evil deeds, the more so because of the scandal that is given.
O’Neil, A.C. (1912). Sin. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm
I don’t think this applies to my scenario. I am basically saying a person just logs onto a site… without thinking anything inappropriate , and then logs off bc they realize it is wrong.