Ohio judge: State must change lethal injection law

Ohio judge: State must change lethal injection law


Note the photo…seems to say more than the article does, no??

I’m confused, I would think that this would be supported by the Church. I thought that in general the Church was more on the anti death-penalty side, and it doesn’t seem like one should be opposed to making the death penalty less painful if one supports it at all.


That photo was extremely revealing.

Had no idea that so many people, so many years later, would still be elevating Che Guevara.

I thought most of these activists were more skillful about hiding their true allegiance.

A relatively recent book:


Nearly four decades after his death, it’s impossible to avoid the image of Ernesto “Che” Guevara everywhere from T-shirts to cartoons. Liberals consider Che a revolutionary martyr who gave his life to help the poor of Latin America. Time named him one of the one hundred most influential people of the last century. And a major Hollywood movie is about to lionize him to a new generation.

The reality, as we learn from Cuban exile Humberto Fontova, is that Che wasn’t really a gentle soul and a selfless hero. He was a violent Communist who thought nothing of firing a gun into the stomach of a woman six months pregnant whose only crime was that her family opposed him. And he was a hypocrite who lusted after material luxuries while cultivating his image as a man of the people.

Fontova reveals that Che openly talked about his desire to use nuclear weapons against New York City. Such was Che’s bloodthirsty hatred that Fontova considers him the godfather of modern terrorism.

Exposing the Real Che Guevara is based on scores of interviews with survivors of Che’s atrocities as well as the American CIA agent who interrogated Che just hours before the Bolivian government executed him.

do you have some source where the Catholic Church, or the bishop there has made a comment on this ruling?

perhaps those who want a che guevara thread could start one? I thought this was a death penalty thread

Actually, this thread is less about the death penalty and more about the kind of activism and activist organizations and tactics that are used to tie up our legal structures and legal systems in knots. So now, the State of Ohio is going to have to jump through hoops to address the specifics of this tactic.

It’s not that capital punishment is wrong, is what they arguing, it’s that the person being executed is feeling pain [not sure how they come to that conclusion], but now Ohio has to spend a lot of manhours and intellectual gynmastics dealing with another question on the subject.

And since the tactic was apparently effective, then the other states using lethal injection with that same mix of drugs may have to deal with the same legalisms as well.

And the rationale and motivation of the protesters is suspect … their hero is Che Guevara. Or at least they display his picture publicly and they want to use his tactics to disrupt our evil capitalist society.

[quote=Al Masetti]Had no idea that so many people, so many years later, would still be elevating Che Guevara.


Beyond that (I do want that shirt, though! :wink: ), that image is much more than ‘woohoo, Communist revolution!’ – it’s an icon. No, Guevara was not a messiah, nor were all the things he did ‘good’ by any stretch of the term – in fact, a lot of them were rather horrific, as I’m sure I don’t need to remind you. Still, it’s more than a picture of a man, it’s a picture of a movement. His choice of tactics isn’t even in the picture, or at least it wouldn’t be if your kneejerk reaction to dissent wasn’t to label anyone with a different axe than yours to grind a terrorist.

That out of the way, there’s an easy replacement for the three-shot cocktail we have, if we’re still going to execute people: opiate or barbiturate overdose. Simple (one shot), cheap (as in $150 or less a go, on average), quick (matter of seconds), painless (you think anyone’s going to be hurting with that much smack?!). Not like we’ll switch to either of those in the near future :nope: One’s for junkies, the other’s for pets, and hardly anybody wants to even suggest using either method to execute actual people. The horror!

Seriously, what the hell? We’re trying to cover our butts against the ‘cruel and unusual’ clause by killing people in the ‘most humane way possible’, and intentionally ignoring two time-tested ways of killing that are far ahead of the ‘state of the art’ in putting people down?

From the article: The ruling is likely [to] be appealed to the Ohio Supreme Court.

Wouldn’t it have to be in order to change State Law? Or I guess the State Legislature could act because of these judges’ remarks. But I would think it would go higher than just this one guy.

Oh the Irony,… opposing Ohio’s DP laws while sporting a picture of a man who tortured and executed his political opponents.


I think that is a huge leap to make based on one picture and one short news blip. Better post a link to a story about this judge, his politics, his activism, or activist groups in Ohio who are lobbying on this issue, if you want to take that direction with the discussion, you are going to need more than a picture. Remember there is one poster child in that picture we cannot discuss without breaking forum rules.

Personally, I prefer the Raskolnikov method. One blow to the head assures immediate death. And then some.

As long as people kill each other, homicide will be hoary. It’s just the nature of the beast. Our government tries to compensate with it by making it more humane. But Death is Death… one of the least relative things that I know of.

Interesting to contemplate the symmetry of the pictures on his wall.

On the other hand, it’s very similar to the Borden method – you know, ‘Lizzie Borden, with an ax, gave her father forty whacks; when she saw what she had done, she gave her mother forty-one’. The headsman doesn’t always have the best accuracy. Interestingly, the guillotine was developed (by a doctor, no less) to improve the humanity of execution – I’d much prefer to go that way than by gambling on the steadiness of a big burly guy in a black hood, if I had to decide between the two. Much quicker and accuracy is guaranteed.

My #1 preference would be a simple opiate overdose – fade to black in 3-10 seconds, no pain at all, and you suffocate after you’re completely unconscious. Plus, a lethal dose of heroin on the street right now is cheaper than the cocktail used in lethal injection – and if it were made a legal avenue for execution, it’d cost maybe $10 to put a criminal down! But I prefer to think that justice should be more about rehabilitation than vengeance in any case. The death penalty is too final: there’s no chance for reparation and repentance, two things Christians are supposed to be pretty big on.

Che at an NObama office in Houston


Ernesto “Che” Guevara- Marxist/Communist/socialist, Executioner. And this “judge” has a poster of him. Time for our own…revolution?

I own posters for a performance of Faust and the movie based on Kafka’s The Trial. I’m not about to sell my soul to the devil, and I doubt I’ll be put in Josef K.'s situation any time soon. I simply happen to like both stories and think their themes are highly meaningful and interesting – nothing more than that. In the same way, that photo of Che Guevara is simply a sigil for a particular theme, that theme being socialism, not murder and torture. Are you guys actively looking for ways to be offended? Find a better use of your time.

Then why not put up a picture of Hitler? He was a socialist too. Or Mao? Or Stalin? All socialists, all killers. Get the point?

Why do you not have posters of Tomas de Torquemada, Francisco Franco, and Arnaud-Amaury hanging up? All Catholics, all psychopathic murderers and torturers – not one of them photographed well enough to become iconic and represent a movement with the best interests of people at heart (however wrongheadedly) instead of their actual behaviors. Get the point?

Yes, b/c when we torture those that don’t share our viewpoints, we really have the people’s best interests at heart. :rolleyes:
You really don’t have a point, except to spin it as much as possible so you don’t feel bad about loving a sadistic socialist/communist SOB who got his kicks torturing and murdering people. If you really think he had “the people’s” best interests at heart, you might be interested some lovely beach front property I have for sell in Minnesota.

I seem to have heard that before, from the people I mentioned…

You really don’t have a point, except to spin it as much as possible so you don’t feel bad about loving a sadistic socialist/communist SOB who got his kicks torturing and murdering people. If you really think he had “the people’s” best interests at heart, you might be interested some lovely beach front property I have for sell in Minnesota.

I don’t love Che Guevara, nor do I imagine he was a selfless hero of the people (although he was cute, I’ll give him that). But what I do recognize and what I’ve been talking about in a probably-vain attempt to get a point across is that that photograph is a mascot. It’s an instantly-recognizable symbol for a socialist movement.

So, everybody who’s griped about Che in this thread, tell me: on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is how you feel about dirt and 10 is how you feel about red and black photos of a South American revolutionary, what number would you give the Stars and Bars?

Can’t say I like it much more than I like Che, but I don’t recall Jefferson Davis torturing people for fun.

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