Some of the threads have been somewhat contentious lately. There have been questions why some of us post in this forum at all since we are not involved with the Traditional Latin Mass. I am wondering if it is ok to post or comment in this Forum. If it is really offensive, can we start a new forum for :“The other Catholics”: or some such. I don’t have a problem with civil conflict - in fact I think it is healthy sometimes and helps us define our positions, but it is not good if destructive to faith or individual concerns. What say you?
The name of this sub-forum seems to attract people with an affinity for traditionalism and people who want to argue with those with an affinity for traditionalism. I have a problem with people who have come for an argument (unless it is in a Monty Python skit).
I think it would be pleasant if those with an affinity for traditionalism could discuss matters of interest to themselves without having to constantly defend themselves from other Catholics. It is not pleasant to be constantly seeing comments about how I am close-minded, intolerant, foolish, etc.
I say this is nothing but bait.
Every few months there seems to be a movement of some to either remove this forum or change its nature completely.:shrug:
I dont think Ohana said anything about removing or changing this forum at all. Merely adding another sub-forum that “non-Traditionalist” Roman Catholics can post in about general information.
I thought that’s what the rest of the forum is for?
I find it hard to imagine a topic that does not fit into the already existing sub-forums. There is not a problem with lack of venues to discuss general Catholicism. I see a problem with people coming to this sub-forum for conflict (even if civil) with traditionalist Catholics. It interferes with those of us who prefer to share interests and encourage each other.
Perhaps those who are interested in conflict could post to Apologetics and the traditionalists who wish to engage with them could do so there.
Possibly what might be good idea is a sticky defining what a Traditional Catholic is. I don’t attend the TLM, but I am traditional in practicing my faith-- I think. I’m hesitant to post here because I don’t attend the Latin Mass, although I do read here quite a bit and am very interested in the topics. Perhaps if Traditional Catholicism could be defined, people could either self-identify and post here or go elsewhere if it doesn’t describe them. Or if this is only to be a forum about traditional liturgy, then maybe the forum should be renamed. I’ve only been a CAF user for a short time, so maybe this has already been proposed and rejected. So instead of changing the nature of the forum, maybe a description about the forum could be a sticky. :twocents:
There is already a stickie on here.
Why do you feel uncomfortable? Did anyone tell you not to post on here? If you want to start a thread about traditional Catholicism, then why shouldn’t you?
The only time there is an issue is when some feel the need to criticize what traditionalists believe.
For example, there is one poster who loves to address questions to traditionalists that are always subtly insulting and which put us on the defensive. And he chooses to do it on this forum. :shrug:
This is not addressed to you but sometimes I feel that some would like to see traditionalists completely gone from this forum because we offend their sensibilities.
I’m glad ya’ll think it’s bait. If you bother to actually look you’ll see that Ohana’s post is a result of the rather hostile reaction his post got in the Latin Mass thread [for which he apologized for; and I’m pretty sure part of that apology is due to the argument I started defending his post].
The Traditional Catholicism forum is for Catholics who are interested in the rich legacy of the Catholic Church. As Tom Casey has pointed out, there are many threads that come under the heading of TC:
Extraordinary Form of the Liturgy
Classics of Western Spirituality
Classics in Western Theology
The Fathers of the Church
The Desert Fathers & Mothers
The great schools of Western spirituality
The stories of the saints
Western religious orders and religious congregations
If you have no interest in those topics, why post on the forum?
Where should we have bothered to look? Were we supposed to do research on the question before answering?
I’m glad you brought up that there is an actual incident that took place, but I’m still not even sure what that is. :shrug:
All I’m saying is that there is some hostility against traditionalists (not from everyone) and that’s not right either.
I’m glad you posted this.
And to those who feel unwelcome, although a lot of posts do focus on line 1 (the EF), why not start threads on the other topics. I’m sure they would be welcome!
There is not a sticky defining what Traditional Catholicism is, there is a sticky suggesting topics that would be good for the forum. Very different.
I feel uncomfortable because I am not sure I qualify to post here since I don’t attend the EF, thus a definition would be helpful for those who may not feel “traditional enough.” The same reason I wouldn’t start a thread for runners if I wasn’t a runner.
I believe I have just stated a reason there might be an issue other than to criticize traditionalists.
Well, that would be me, even though I attend the OF. I guess the point I’m making is, when people see the title “Traditional Catholicism,” they, or at least I think, “oh that’s for people who go to Latin Mass.” When actually it’s for all Catholics who are interested in Catholic history and tradition (small t)
Ahh, but the problem is to many people those subjects require a teachable spirit (if I may borrow a phrase from my Baptist days). Arguing and fighting attract a crowd, sensationalism attracts the crowd. Many a Baptist preacher will tell you a Bible study on Revelation attracts more people than Ephesians or 1st Timothy.
I mean, who wants to hear about the fruits of the Spirit when I can get the inside scoop on the anti-Christ and the 7 year Tribulation? :shrug:
All Catholics are traditional, or at least should be whether they attend a TLM or a Novus Ordo.
As for the hostility toward traditionalists part of it is a direct result of some traditionalists. Prior to me finding CAF I had no clue traditionalism existed; my first impression of it was formed by the traditional sub-forum. It wasn’t good. It wasn’t good because half the posts seemed to consist of hostile comments from traditionalists toward non-traditionalists. That stereotype flo mentioned about traditionalists being close-minded, intolerant, foolish, etc.; yeah that’s what I walked away with as my first impression of traditionalists. The only reason I keep coming back to the sub-forum is because assume there traditionalism then the hostility toward anything non-traditionalist I see displayed within the forum. And I assume this based not on what I’ve seen on the sub-forum, but based on the fact that the Church apparently sees something in traditionalism I don’t.
But, if every honest question or criticism is automatically greeted with hostility why should we non-traditionalists even bother? If we non-traditionalists are being “mean” and hostile every time we disagree with a traditionalist point of view why don’t we just ask CAF to give ya’ll a closed forum. That way we won’t ever have to talk to each other and can continue ignoring the fact that we both can actually learn something of our faith from each other.
And this helps the situation how?
When I first came to CAF and saw the sub-forum title I thought it was just about Catholic history and tradition (small t). I had no clue traditionalism even existed.
Is it okay to post in this forum?
Yes, of course it is.
I pray this rancorous thread will be closed.