Oh, also just thought I would comment on how nice Mass was yesterday at my church. I was actually sitting between two people who didn’t want to hold hands, and my prayer before Mass that there be a Latin hymn was answered. The second song at communion was sung by the choir, with no instructions to open our hymnals, Veni Sancte Spiritus. My church tends to be less traditional than I would like, so I do appreciate those moments.
**dulci - I see what you mean. i guess we’ll all just have to see how it works out. **
Well I’m just having a crummy week so far and it’s only Monday.
I went to mass solo with all 8 yesterday because dh is out of town. The lady at the end is someone in our hs group, but we’ve never sat with her before. Actually, she got up out of her pew shortly into the mass to move to sit with us. All very nice. Her daughter is a gem too.
This dear lady reached for the hand of my oldest son. I’ve taught all of my children to keep to the “assume the position” - prayer position that is with hands together. So she had to actually get his attention and ask for his hand during the our father. Needless to say, this rather unnerved my 12 yr old son and he really didn’t see a way around it without being rude to an elder, kwim? I normally would have laugh it off with her after mass, but I was in a hurry to get home and baby girl was starting to feel like a 2 ton boulder on shoulder. I think she was hoping to chit-chat bond or something a bit after mass and I just couldn’t this time. I was pretty much 5 feet behind the priest and herding the kids like cats through the crowd to the van. LOL
Given that we may see each other on a regular basis, thus forming a habit, I sent her a very nice, I thought anyhow, email. This is what I sent:
Didn’t mean to be abrupt with you at Mass yesterday. Your DD was so wonderfuly behaved! We were just in a hurry. We usually try to sit in the very front so we can guide the kids easier, but without Rob to help with the babies, I figured I better sit in the back for easy exit from the pew with B. while still being able to watch the other kids. I needed a good nap after Mass!
I noticed Ds was at a bit of a loss on how to respond to your gesture to hold hands during the Our Father, somethng I have taught them to never do, so I thought I’d just pass this info along. Make of it what you like.
ewtn.com/expert/answers/holding_hands_at_mass.htm See you at the park!
**I think I just ticked her off or hurt her feelings or whatever, which was not my intent at all. :shrug: Normally, I would have just let it go, but we may be spending time around her and I didn’t want it to become a habit. Please remember I’m a strong believer in the nip it in the bud theory and my oldest is very impressionable. **
sigh Guess I have to make a call to smooth ruffled feathers…
Email is a great invention but I myself have gotten into some “big” trouble with my brother’s wife through misunderstandings in email… so… I learned the hard way that I must speak to her face to face or on the phone so that she can hear my voice… we all parent different and you have the right to let this gal know that you just don’t want your kids confused as I’m sure you would do the same if the shoe were on the other foot… its not like your telling her you don’t want to be friends, etc. so really, she should see that it’s not her… its that you wouldn’t allow them to hold any one’s hands during the our father… not even yours… let her see it is totally nothing against her… and I’m sure she’ll be fine with it… I have learned that I parent my way and others parent their way… so I am soooo careful when it comes to others children, including my own nieces and nephews and I find that my friends and siblings really respect that and now they always make sure to ask me “is this o.k. with you pertaining to my kids” it just makes it really nice and that way nobody ever need get ruffled feathers.
I think providing her with the link is an awesome idea… she might not even have known this… I think the majority of my parish haven’t the slightest idea that hand holding is not proper… gee… wish someone would tell them… but I’m not that bold:D
Where can one read the GERM? I would certainly like to and would like to show our youth minister this information… his wife is my friend and I think he could really have some pull in our parish… I really think some priests either don’t know or they don’t care… that really upsets me and I would love some proof to share with them.
thanks if you know where I can look this up.
**You’re right I should have just picked up the phone from the begining. Even before she said I was rather too Cathlic, so now I’m sure I’ve reached the “over-the-top” status. **
During the period when the people are receiving Holy Communion and after receiving Holy Communion, it is supposed to be a time of prayerful silence. If there is any music, it should be playing very softly, but nobody should be singing during that time.
What’s wrong with a children’s liturgy?
It makes it seem as though the Mass is not really for everyone, or that some people (such as little children) are not really welcome at Mass.
There should be religious education classes for children, and I’m a very strong supporter of Sunday Schools and Catechism classes, but they should not take place during the Mass, and they should certainly not be viewed as a replacement for the regular Mass. After Mass, or on a different day of the week, would be more appropriate times for such classes. They can review the readings of the Mass and teach the children how to make their own prayers in a class outside of Mass time just as easily, I think - and it can still be lots of fun, too!! Learning doesn’t have to be dull.
Well, if she has come to that conclusion that is sad… many of my friends and I have differing views but that can be one of the most enjoying parts of our friendships and you can learn from eachother… so its her loss… give her time and say a prayer for her… she may just need to research this herself… she might even feel a little silly that she didn’t even know this info… I know this was a surprise to me when I first heard of it:)
We returned to our catholic parish after being away for awhile and when we attened we were told we would have to hold hands my mom was very uncomfortable with this, well after a year our priest was approached about the hand holding and so our priest told the congregation that the arch diocese does not, nor will not encourage the hand holding and if there were some who’d like to do it then go ahead but respect the space of the ones who do not and then eventually this practice will be forbidden all together we are also now allowed if we wish to kneel when the euchurist is present on the altar we no longer have to wait til the priest kneels after communion
**I wasn’t even trying to be bold! I just thought it would let her know I wasn’t trying to be a pain or that it was anything personal. So much for that.:rolleyes: **
I’m with you 100%! I would have done the same thing. And as for being considered a “radical”, “hardcore”, “over-the-top”, “ultra-conservative” Catholic - well, thank the good Lord we have CAF where we can all meet and be kooky together!:whacky:
Martha, For what it’s worth, I thought the email was fine. My parish is about 50-50 on hand holding, and I fear it is my fault. When my kids were very little and I was a single mom I made them hold hands to keep them still during the Lord’s prayer. Unfortunately it caught on to many of the parishioners. Now I of course don’t let them, but I fear the damage is done… anyway, back to your problem… I totally agree about keeping them in mass too. Where else are they going to learn how to behave and appreciate the mass for the celebration it is? I don’t see too much wrong with the announcement of the second communion hymn, but then you should hear our choir director announce the Entrance hymn… it gives me the willies!!! No lie, “Good morning, Could we please turn and greet with a kiss or hand shake those we love and our neighbors. Our Entrance hymn will be ______________ on page 359 in the Music Missal Issue. Sing loud so I can hear you!” No kidding!!! I about come out of my skin every mass. I have emailed my pastor about this and he has spoken to her… it helps for a week.
I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Sometimes when we worry too much we can make it a bigger deal than it is. I wouldn’t even bring it up to her again (unless, of course, the situation arises again). She probably just thinks “She’s one of those types” and who cares? When she gets to know you better she’ll realize that you’re a nice person with a lot to offer (at least 8 kids worth of stuff!) and she’ll get over it. If it comes up again, just tell her that “We ain’t handholders” and tell her you’re just more comfortable with a different act of piety. She may have taken the link to the article as you trying to educate her (which isn’t wrong) and you know how homeschoolers like to be educated by other homeschoolers.
Its the only mass there was for hundreds of years…
Just as you get to know the parish, the parish will get to know you and your family. Don’t underestimate the power of all nine or ten of you worshipping in a pew together.
Only those of you sitting at the end will confront the hand holding issue. Perhaps you and your husband can “bookend” the family, then you will deal with the issue and not your children. Also, as the congregation observes practically a whole row on non-hand holders, more will break the habit. Many at church just do what the person in front of them do.
The people who direct the children’s liturgy probably just wanted to make sure you and your children knew they were welcome to join them, (not thinking that it implies children aren’t welcome to remain at Mass.) They likely won’t continue to press that issue.
The non-Catholic-focussed Catholic youth groups might need a bit of prayer and perseverance on your family’s part. I know you probably wanted these groups for your children so they would help build your children’s Catholic faith, but maybe your children and their faith is what will help build these groups into Catholic groups.
It’s wonderful that your husband feels comfortable at that parish. Whether or not your husband ever converts, his comfort attending Mass with you and your children strikes me as very important for your children’s faith and even the faith of others around you.
Whether you like it or not, a large family attracts the attention of others and it provides witness without saying a word. I grew up in a Catholic parish with lots of these types of things going on. (Granted, I left the Catholic Church for a time and found my husband’s protestant church felt somewhat similar.) Those large Catholic families, they made a strong impression on me.
I have to vent here also but I do not know if this is the right place. There is a parish in the next town who are so liberal…God is love Barney style.
I met one of the RCIA candidates who was still on a high from her Easter baptism. It was great to see. The subject of living together came up for some reason and she said that if her children were living together she wouldnèt be worried at all. Because she has raised them right…they have their values passed on to them for sure and they can still receive the Eucharist.
This is where I piped in and said that is false, one cannot revceive the Euxharist if in the state of grave sin, objectively speaking. She said they should live together first to see if they are compatible and then they dan get married. My catholic sister agreed with her (my sister is divorced with 5 children and is co-habitating with another Catholic and that is okay).
I had said that one brings oneself into condmnation by the Eucharist itself if not properly disposed. She did not agree…and her, a neophyte! I did mention we were not a cafeteria catholic faith.
What I venting about is that they are not taught what sin is! It is so exasperating and it possibly could lead many on the path of destruction. We have the mercy of God, thank God, and hopefully one day they will their error. But if they are not taught, they canèt know…
:clapping: Thanks for this important reminder.
We are called to celebrate the Mass and our faith in community and fellowship. Isolation is not the answer and has a tendency to be divisive and to alienate, instead of unify, the Body of Christ.
I think it could be a LOT worse than hand-holding and children’s liturgy.
Honestly, I don’t understand what the big deal is about hand-holding, neither the people who will punch you in the shoulder or wave their hand across your face rudely to get your attention, nor the folks who put their nose in the air and stick out their elbows instead of a polite “no thank you” when a hand is offered. I recall one person equating this practice to “laying naked on the altar.” :rolleyes: For goodness sake, it’s holding someone’s hand for all of three minutes, or standing with one hand outstretched and unheld. Does hand-holding really offend the spirit of the law that much? Perhaps you’ll be kind enough to send the link, Martha, so I understand where you’re coming from. The arguments I have read have been pretty weak, in my opinion. But, admittedly, I haven’t read that much.
As for children’s liturgy, I can’t say since I don’t know what yours is like. I used to assist with children’s liturgy at my old parish, and I found it very effective. The children were expected to be attentive during a reflection that was geared toward young people, and in my experience they actually got a lot more out of it than sitting quietly listening to an adult-oriented homily. We excluded the coloring book or craft activities, which is what most people find objectionable. The entire reflection was timed with Fr’s homily and children then returned to their parents.
I can sympathize, Martha, but just remember it could be a whole lot worse. Your priest could be serving a bowl of eucharistios with a glass of grape juice for communion…:eek:
You are right…it could and is a lot worse. We have a parish in my town where the priest ad libbed the Consecration for a First Communion…thus…there was no Jesus!:mad:
I’m sure if you tell your DH what you’ve written here and explain just how much it would mean to you to go to the old church, he would understand. Are these two churches the only ones around? Maybe the answer lies in another parish altogether? I hope you find a good church home soon!