Okay, this is really annoying me


#1

godisimaginary.com/video1.htm

Just watch and be disgusted. Is there any way we can reject this filth?


#2

Logically speaking the guy is right on, you can’t blame him for being confused about getting to Heaven. When you read the Bible it does actually make salvation nearly impossible, hence why there is so much confusion on how to get there even amongst Christians. In one verse it’s as simple as believe in Jesus Christ and you will be saved, in another it’s telling you to sell everything you own, in another simply obey the commandments. Who knows? seriously… I gave up on tring to figure it out, it’ll make you crazy, all the Bible does is contradict itself over and over again, especially concerning man and salvation.


#3

Okay, does anyone have a better answer?


#4

No one can refute the guys logic because no one can discern how to get to Heaven from Bible, it’s impossible. Let me put it this way Pope Noah, how are you getting to Heaven? Explain to me how you will get to Heaven? Then we’ll put it in context of the Bible and see if it measures up.

This is a message board and you’ll get all sorts of answers, if you don’t like mine simply don’t comment on it instead of being a rude…


#5

I meant it in a joking way, sorry if I offended you. But, if the Bible is full of contradictions, than what makes it better than the Hindu Gita, or the Koran?


#6

Getting to heaven is not based on our relationship with a book, but with a Person: our Lord, God, and Saviour Jesus Christ.


#7

How do you have a relationship with someone who doesn’t talk to you or acknowledge your existence? I mean I know this is the old stand by for Christians, but in reality what does that statement mean? You can’t have a relationship with someone who died 2,000 years ago. He doesn’t talk to you, he doesn’t tell you what to do, and that’s that, so how does that get you to Heaven?


#8

some basic principles I try to live by.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, strength, and soul. Love your neighbor as Jesus loves us.

use the Sacraments frequently, especially the Eucharist, and Reconciliation… if you fall get right back up again and get to confession.

Pray… pray the Rosary… chaplet of Divine Mercy… spend time before the Blessed Sacrament.

Read the Scriptures daily.

Do not neglect Matthew 25.

Forgive all who have wronged you.

I Approach God with a combination of fear and trembling, and love for the most amazing event of all time… dying on the Cross for me. I have great hope in His mercy.

God Bless,
Kevin


#9

This video’s logic is flawed because it doesn’t explain the context Jesus was speaking in. This video has an anti-God agenda. I’m going to take a shot at briefly responding to each of his points.

  1. Love God and love your neighbor. pretty obvious

  2. Follow the commandments and sell everything. There is a very obvious reason Jesus says sell everything. The official was rich, and his love of money and possesions was greater than his love of God. Other wise he would have followed Jesus. Remember that Jesus is talking to one man. He doesn’t say you must all sell your things, but He is stressing the fact that we can’t love possesions more than God and neighbor.

  3. Hate everyone! The context is the same as in #2 you must hate everyone in the sense that they are possesions to you. (in other words renounce the claim or right to posses them) Every thing is a gift from God, you don’t own it, it is given to you for the benefit of God and His people.

two verses later Jesus talks about someone constructing a tower. Why would he use this example if He expected them to sell it right away? The key to understanding the context is in verse 33. “In the same way, everyone of you who does not renounce all his possesions cannot be my disciple.” It is obvious. We can have possesions, but can’t lay claim to them and make them more important than God. They are gifts from God that we need to use wisely.

  1. You would have to understand the significance of the Jewish passover and the Christian Eucharist. Jesus sacrificed Himself for us, becoming the passover lamb, and made Himself present in the bread and wine we consume at the Mass.

  2. The key to understaning this statement is in verse 4 which the video doesn’t mention. “Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.” We must trust in God like a child.

  3. Born again? Get baptised!

  4. Many of the 617 OT laws where brought about because the Jews were addicted to idolotry and the God’s of Egypt. Most of these laws were abolished when Christ came. Jesus isn’t refering to these 617 OT laws, He’s refering to the ten commandments which are summed up in the golden rule. (which he points out in #1) The problem was that God’s intended law (golden rule) wasn’t in the Pharisees heart. Jesus is saying don’t be like the Pharisees, because the law must be in your heart.

  5. Believe in Jesus

**I reject the idea that it is impossible to get into heaven. Taken in context Jesus is saying:

  1. love the Lord your God above everything else and love your neighbor as yourself.

  2. Don’t love money and possesions follow #1

  3. Be humble

  4. Get baptised

  5. Repent because your a sinner (I’m adding this because the video didn’t)

  6. Recieve the Eucharist

  7. Follow the commandment out of love for God and man

  8. Believe and follow Jesus**

This make pretty good sense to me, but I can see how people who have a thing against God would have a problem with it. I’m not saying that following these 8 steps is easy. What I am saying it is possible, and so is getting to heaven.

Peace,

Ryan :slight_smile:


#10

Doesn’t acknowledge my existence?? He acknowledged my and your existence in the most profound way possible! He gave His life in ransom for ours. I’d say that’s a pretty big acknowledgement.

Christ didn’t stay dead after He was crucified, that’s what Easter is about - Christ conquered death, He rose from the dead - he conquered Satan. Sin is giving in to Satan’s encourgement (so to speak). Death is a consequence of sin - our death inherited because of Adam and Eve and the weakness they passed down to us. The “gates of heaven” were closed to all people - you and me - until Christ conquered sin and death so we may be with Him always in heaven.

You don’t have a relationship with Him because you’re not listening, you’re not being open. You just assume He doesn’t exist because you can’t see Him walking down the street like any other human being, therefore, there is no reason to listen for something you think is dead.

He has spoken to me in most profound ways. He has shown me that He exists by doing some of the most amazing things - so obvious - things that I prayed to Him about - He answered the very next day! It was as if He were screaming at me!!

There are times when I don’t hear Him or feel His presence and it’s extremely lonely. But, I’ve come to realize that it’s not Him that leaves me or doesn’t exist - it’s me. I’m not listening, I’m not as open to Him as I have been. As soon as I turn back to Him alone and to completely trusting Him, the fog clears and there He is!

Until you do the same, I fear you won’t ever have the opportunity to be in His presence or to know without a shadow of a doubt that He does exist, not just 2000 years ago but NOW. It’s a horrible thing to realize that so many people in this world will never experience the profound presence and love of Christ while on this earth because they can’t see Him, hear Him or touch Him. Our scientific age has all but negated the mystical in favor of only the tangible. It’s really a shame.

Listen and be open.


#11

Aim for God, not for a place to be in an eternal state of happiness. Heaven is just the logical conclusion of an omnibenevolant God. It is very real, but is not the end in itself, God is. That isn’t to say you must not want heaven, just that it shouldn’t be your god itself.
And don’t listen to that rubbish that there is contradiction, doctrine and dogma stand the test quite clearly. Thinking that there is a contradiction, comes from ignorance. If what I told you is true and I said,
*To get an A in this class ALL you must do is love the class before all else.

But then I said

To get an A in this class you must write an 8 page essay.
To get an A in this class you must be willing to fail your other classes.
To get an A in this class you must be willing to give up everything you own.*

Anyone can tell I am not contradicting myself, for if you aren’t willing to do one of those, then clearly you do not ‘love the class before all else.’

Things like hate your mother etc, but then also love thy neighbor as thy self are easily vindicated when you realize you must love God before yourself. Loving each other is what we are meant to do, but it has no value without God, who is love. If you love anything or anyone before God, you are not fit for heaven.

I would not bother refuting the person directly though, the poor man is too steeped in ignorance or hatred (my guess is a bit of both). Not to mention he has a very childish way of understanding things (he lacks higher reasoning skills), if he truly believes what he says. When you encounter people like this do your best, treat them as family, but also pity them and pray for them. They may think they want to be without God, but I pray such people only think this out of ignorance.


#12

Perhaps you should ask someone who can correctly answer your concerns?
The Bible does say to “believe” which is faith and without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb 11:4-6). We need the three theological virtues of true or formed faith (in Jesus Christ), hope and love [charity]. Baptism in the Trinitarian form is part of faith and puts us into the covanent family of God. This is how a person is saved. And a good principal to remember is that God only requires for people, what they have received. To much is given much is required (Luke 12:48).

When Jesus says sell everything to the rich man, He isn’t speaking to everyone, but keying in on the issue that is keeping this young man from heaven. This man loves his things more than God, Jesus knew his heart and ergo tells him to sell everything.
Jesus isn’t speaking to us in a literal sense as He does with the rich man otherwise how would we be able to feed our families? Give to the poor? Or help the poor? All are mandated in Scripture Mt 25:34-40.


#13

Well, all due deference, Jesus does speak to us Christians but in a way that is different to what you are used to. Jesus speaks to us in pray in our soul, our being. By faith we trust Him in many situations in life and He brings us through these trials and tribulations with peace and confidence, and most of all Jesus gives us purpose to live and purpose to love. Any committed Christian would admit that without Jesus, they wouldn’t be able to love others. Mother Theresa cared for the poorest of the poor in India, those who were filled with disease, filthy, unwanted and dying. Without Jesus’ love within her, Mother Theresa couldn’t have given us so much and yet served so many all with unconditional love.
She was an image of who God is in His nature, love.
A woman gets raped and decides to have the child even through all of the turmoil pain of her situation; she does so by God’s grace. That child goes on to find a cure for cancer which helps millions of people; this is the kind of God we Christians serve, love and follow. He works in ways, and communicates to us in ways unseen by the human eye, yet known only through faith. He takes the bad and makes it good.


#14

This is a well thought out answer.


#15

Has anyone ever encountered someone who did something nice for you? Or someone who said all the right things that you needed to hear? Have you ever felt like you just met someone special?

We are suppose to see Jesus in everyone. Scripture tells us Jesus is in others.
**
Matthew 25**
35’For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;

36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’

37"Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?

38’And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?

39’When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’

40"The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

The relationship we have with Jesus can be seen in how we behave with His children.

When we love each other we love Jesus. That is part of our relationship with Him.

The other part is in prayer, when we communicate with Him.

Another is when we receive Him in the Eucharist.

If someone asks me “Do you have a personal relationship with Jesus.”

I respond with “I place His flesh in my mouth every Sunday, you can’t get more personal then that.”


#16

The Bible can’t contradict itself. If it does, it is because we are interpreting it wrong. You should try to read Scott Hahn’s Bible study guide its real intresting. I look at the Bible in a different way now. Its more like love letters from God. Forget the numbers and the verses. Just read it from cover to cover. They are stories of the love God has for us.
salvationhistory.com/online/coursesofstudy.cfm


#17

That has nothing to do with him acknowledging you now.

Nonsense you assume to know my history I spent years as a dedicated uber Catholic, sorry never a word from God or Jesus, and I’m sure it isn’t just because he doesn’t like me. It’s because he doesn’t talk to people.

No he hasn’t Dianajo, he hasn’t spoken to you ad you know it.

Been there done that got the T-Shirt, sorry god or jesus never said a word, nothing. I can only assume god hates me, or everyone is just faking it, I think everyone is faking it to be honest. God doesn’t talk to people and tell them a thing, if you hear voices you need professional help.


#18

I’ve been through terrible trials all by myself, millions of Jews went through probably the most ardous trial a human can go through all without Jesus. In the Marines I’ve seen Christians fold and weep when fired upon. I think this is a bunch of malarky.

I love others without Jesus, Jews love others without Jesus, do you think only Christians can love affectively? Look at the world around you and you don’t anymore fruit from Christians than non-Christians.


#19

Well the Bible does contradict itself over and over again, the only way you can say it doesn’t is by using mental gymnastics to make it seem like a comprehensible text. I’ve read the Bible cover to cover, in fact after actually reading the Bible I LOST my faith. The Old Testament is a torturous terrifying book filled with rape, genocide, murder, human sacrifice, all condoned and even ordered by god on many occasions. It’s a nightmare.


#20

You’ve gotten good answers to that question already on this thread, but heres one you probably haven’t heard, and probably one that most haven’t heard either.

You have to ask yourself, “How did the first Christians start believing in Jesus? The ones that never met Him; only met His disciples/Apostles (still living at the time)?”

Why did they start believing in Jesus? Why did they start beleiving He was REAL? After all, they were PERSECUTED for their faith; they had a lot more to loose in their faith than we do. So why?

Why? The only answer that makes sense is that they encountered Jesus in His FOLLOWERS. His Disciples. His Apostles.

You see, Jesus isn’t some distant diety that’s sitting up in Heaven (although He is in Heaven right now don’t get me wrong). He’s also present in the Eucharist of course. But what most Christians forget is, that first Encounter with Christ that His first followers MUST have had with Him, to endure the persecution and STILL believe. That Encounter is through His followers.

The answer to your question is this: You have a relationship with Jesus by meeting Him in His followers. As I said above, He isn’t some distant diety looking down at us from Heaven. He is ALSO alive IN his followers.

When you see a devout Christian, you see Jesus. Thus, you can have a “relationship” with Him by meeting His followers, and associating with them. This is how Jesus is tangibly present today; of course the followers aren’t Jesus in deity, but His Presence is in the heart of the true believer, just as it MUST have been centuries ago, in the first few encounters after His Ascention into Heaven.

If it weren’t, if there WASN’T a physical presence of Jesus back then, then Christianity never would have survived. Because back then, the new Christians had MUCH more reason to ask, “Where is Jesus? How can I have a relationship with someone who isn’t here, physically?”

If THEY didn’t get the answer to that question, they surely would not have died for their faith. Something real happened to them; something PHYSICAL, or else they died for nothing.

Think about it.


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