Old Catholic Church killing?


#1

Is it true that the catholic church went to other countries and forced our religion upon them? Did old catholics wage holy war on other religions? Did people actually flee thier old country in fear of the church? I thought the church was protected so this could never happen. How did the church change for the better sence then?


#2

Could you be more specific? I’m not quite sure what you’re referring to.


#3

Firstly, no we did not have ‘‘holy wars’’ with other religions. Secondly the Church is not an army, they never invaded anywhere. Sure countries that have large Catholic populations engaged in war against nations whose populations predominantly followed another religion. However you will have to be more specific as to the countries and wars you are referring to.


#4

#5

Do you have any information on this? We would be very curious to know. Thank you.


#6

The Church has a 2,000 year history. Have SOME in the 2,000 years done these things, loosely defined as you have presented? Probably.

But one must not conflate this with the Church’s teaching or mission. We are all sinners, including Church officials, including Popes. All of us. We always have been.

And yet the Truth of the Ten Commandments was not limited to the righteousness of the men who carried the Ark of the Covenant about. They are true regardless.

The Truth of the Resurrection is not limited by Peter’s denial thrice of Christ. It is true regardless.

The Truth of the Catholic Church, Christ’s Church, is not limited because of crusading Popes, zealous missionaries, or Inquisitors who overstepped their bounds. It is true regardless.

How do we know Christ protects the Church?

The Church stands still, as she has since he founded it. The Gates of Hell have not prevailed against her. And will not.

There is no other community or church which can truthfully make this claim. That is precisely why they cherry-pick (when they don’t outright fabricate) historical excesses to try to undermine the Church.


#7

Yes, the Church has at times maintained military forces to defend Catholics and expel Muslims from the Holy Places. The sovereign military orders still survive, in much debased form, as reminders of this.
Also Catholic countries, notably Spain, set up colonies in South and Central America. Some of it was justified on the grounds of spreading the faith.

Not all of this can be defended, though in general it is much easier to criticise from our perspective. There is no easy answer on Iraq today, just as there was no easy answer on the question of Jerusalem 800 years ago. Crusading delayed the Muslim invasion of Eastern Europe, but it wasn’t successful in permanently restoring the Holy Places to Christian control. Nor was the model of a Christian knighthood really consistent with the core doctrines of the faith, although it was much closer to it than some of the present practises offered as “Christianity”.


#8

I’m sorry that i cannot specify on what countries I was refering to. Because I was debating an athiest and he asked me how do I explain catholic crausaders killing in other countrys, and forcing them to be a catholic. I was mainly asking if this ever really happend, and if so why?


#9

While you’re at, you might ask your atheist friend about atheists invading and killing: Communism for example.


#10

The short answer is no, it never happened. The Catholic Church has always taught that forced conversions are invalid. The Crusaders went to the Holy Land to prevent innocent unarmed pilgrims from being massacred, not to convert anyone. (The first one, 2 centuries later, to promote the idea of trying to convert the Moslems was St Francis of Assisi, who is usually admired even by atheists!) Unfortunately all wars, even just wars like the Crusades, involve killing, and there are always those who commit war crimes such as killing civilians after they have surrendered.


#11

And to prevent an all out invasion of Europe by the Muslims. Europe would have been Islamic long ago if it weren’t for the Catholic Church.


#12

61 911 000 : Soviet Gulag
35 236 000 : Communist Chinese Ant Hill
20 946 000 : Nazi Germany
45 000 000 : abortions


#13

They will invariably argue these had nothing to do with atheism. Yes, they are being coy, but this won’t cut any ice with them. When people with religion kill people, it’s religion’s fault. When people hostile to religion kill people, it’s something other than atheism’s fault. Convenient, no? :rolleyes:

Can’t understand their complaining about the Crusades though. They ultimately prevented the West from being overrun by Islam. And from the West we get all those things that make the atheist philosophy something taken seriously.


#14

HOGWASH.
Ask you friend for facts/examples of what he’s talking about.
It’s very easy to spew out accusations without proof.


#15

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