Omni- Mary and Saints


#1

What does one have to do/be to be omnipresent/potence, etc?

I was watching a video on YouTube on why we should not pray to Mary and the Saints, because they are DEAD. I know this has gone over with everytime. Maybe I have the answer, I just need more clarification. He said something about God alone being omnipresent, able to hear from more than one person. He said that Mary and the Saints CAN’T because then that would mean they are like God or something…

I said this to myself:
“Since when was God the God of the dead and not the living? Aren’t Mary and the s/Saints in heaven? Why would Christ want us to stop doing what he commanded us to do on earth to do in heaven?”

I also understand that when we pray to Mary we really pray to God just through Mary.

I guess the only problem for me is understanding the meaning of “omnipresence, omnipotent, etc.”. Thanks.


I can post the video? I just don’t know if it’s allowed. :slight_smile:


#2

omnipresent doesn’t just mean more than one. After all, anyone with a voicemail can hear from more than one person!

Firstly she would literally need to be seeing and hearing everything to be omnipresent. I believe she sees and hears what God wants her to see or hear, not necessarily every single thing.

Secondly we’d have to believe that this is a power intrinsic to her rather than being a gift of God. In Revelation, for example, John is granted the gift to be able to see and hear all of heaven, earth and the underworld simultaneously, all praising God. Does that make him omnipotent? Or is it simply a gift that God has granted to him?


#3

First, there is a great fallacy in that argument? Is God defined by his abilities? NO! God is God because he is God. He isn’t God because he is omnipotent/present.

Second, and that was already pointed out, the abilities of Mary and the rest of the saints in heaven do not come from them but from God. If they can hear everything then it’s only because God wants them to hear everything.


#4

Is there biblical evidence? I’m sure there is. After all, I’m speaking with someone who goes by bible alone.


#5

He quotes Isaiah 63:16:

“Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.”

…How Abraham and Israel don’t know us. That the Lord alone knows us. Which is why we should pray to God only.

“I didn’t say they were not living–but that they are physcically DEAD. The passage I quote from Isaiah says that Abraham and Israel do not KNOW US. Just because the are alive in the presence of God/Christ does not mean that they know what you are doing. And if they don’t know what we are doing/can’t see us…what’s the point of praying to them?”


#6

Oh sorry. I’ll check www.catholic.com of course! :slight_smile:


#7

Where in the Bible does it clarify the fact that the saints in Rev 5:8 are the ones in heaven? Could it be the saints on earth whose prayers are being offered to God?

[quote=http://catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp]One charge made against it is that the saints in heaven cannot even hear our prayers, making it useless to ask for their intercession. However, this is not true. As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of “golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.
[/quote]


#8

Any more help thanks. :slight_smile:


#9

Where in the Bible does it clarify the fact that the saints in Rev 5:8 are the ones in heaven?

It’s not the saints that are the issue, it’s the elders. Who are they to be presenting the prayers of the holy ones if they haven’t received the prayers of the holy ones?

Peace and God bless!


#10

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.