Originally Posted by **Summoner**
*Oh, sorry, thanks for setting me straight. That language is indeed Biblical.*
no problem, happy to help out.
Huh? I think you're a bit confused about Church's teachings.
Please don’t fall into the same pattern that so many others do…
If you think that I am a bit confused about this guy called “Church”, and his teachings, then great, you are free to say so. but if that is all you do, you have not contributed to anything. I know no better, others reading know no better. In fact, I doubt that many could discern from your abstract phrasing exactly what the confusion was, or what the ‘correct’ teachings of Mr Church were. So, instead of saying simply “I think you are confused/wrong/in error”, show me how I am confused, wrong, or in error. Show me what the teachings really are. Show me how the Pope is not the “Holy Father”, for example.
And you also know why I did that as I explained it. I found the debate very unchristian (which I admit was partially also my fault) and when you implied that I'm being brainwashed I decided to drop out of the debate.
Well, it was definitely ‘un-Christian’ in that it was about heretical teachings http://www.dndonlinegames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif As to brainwashed, your word or mine? Definitely taught heretical beliefs, and brought up on them and an understanding that you should take the priest/bishop/pope’s word over the Bible’s.
Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. http://www.dndonlinegames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
Great! (well, not so great in the pleasing-to-God sense…)
**Confession **- why? Why do you need to tell some priest what you have done wrong? Why does the priest have to absolve you? Why is asking God for forgiveness not enough? And, if you want to tell someone else (that isn’t wrong), why the priest? Why not a friend? Why not a sibling, or a bible-study member (you do do bible study, right?) And why do you do the various other things prescribed afterwards? “hail mary” and so forth? What do these penances do for you?
Mass - why? Does it somehow ‘wash’ your sins of the past week away? Do you chew the bread/wafers? Does the priest have to finish off all the wine/bread at the end of it? (why is this?) If you miss a week, is that bad? Would you pour out the wine, or throw out the bread, if there was stuff left over? (why not?) Would you be OK if someone else, a 'lay-person", led the mass? Why/why not? Would you be ok in leading mass, nerves and memory of what to do aside? Why/why not? What is really happening when the priest blesses the wine/bread?
Mary / the ‘saints’ - why? Why not just pray to God the father, through Jesus Christ, by the Holy Spirit? What is it about Mary/Saints that makes it ‘better’? Why not me? Why don’t you pray for me to intercede for you? Or any other living saint? Why do you think that M/S can hear you, when they are mere humans without any God-like powers of omniscience? And why can they get God’s ear better than you yourself could? Why would God listen to them, but not you? Why the dead “Saints”, and not the dead “saints”? (that is, the RC classification of saints vs the biblical classification of saints, the former being miracle workers and somehow special, the latter being anyone who follows Christ)
I just stated my point of view since I already decided to post the first part.
http://www.dndonlinegames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif It was a little more than “views”. You did not say “I think Calvins teachings on predestination were heretical”< you claimed that they were. The former, you could get away with no backing up (although it is still dodgy). the latter needs backing up http://www.dndonlinegames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Don't "push" me or I will and then fail my exams and sue you! http://www.dndonlinegames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif http://www.dndonlinegames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
c’mon, now, neither of us are americans, that wont work! http://www.dndonlinegames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
((the above is just a jestful poke at the funny legal practices of some USA-ians, and not meant to be taken seriously or as a general statement of all who would fit into the above classification http://www.dndonlinegames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ))