On earth as it is in heaven?


#1

Is this an instruction to create heaven on earth?

Is this achieved through conversion, and what are the implications of such a mass conversion?


#2

No, it is simply a prayer that man will do God’s will on earth, just as His will is done in heaven.

It is not a command to create heaven on earth; such a thing would not be possible, since our fallen nature will not be perfected until we attain heaven.


#3

I strongly disagree. In our everyday relations, in the ways we conduct our business affairs, the way we drive, and even the way we vote we are to keep in mind the petition that God’s will be done on Earth. The alternative is the acceptance of moral anarchy.


#4

Well, of course. And if everyone could accomplish that perfectly, we would have a just society. But not a heaven on earth.


#5

I don’t think we should be concerned that everyone accomplishes this command perfectly, as I will concede that this is an impossibility. We may restrict that accomplishment to those to whom God has granted temporal authority. As for Heaven on Earth, I will further concede that it is futile, but that does not absolve us of the duty to attempt to get as close as we can.


#6

I think you’re both right in your own way.

Eric - should we make earth as heavenly as possible? Of course.

But the question is:
“What does ‘Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven’ mean”?

It simply means that we cooperate with God’s Will such that it will be enacted here on earth as it is enacted in Heaven.


#7

What about the New Heaven and the New Earth? (remodelling job).

There will be a New Heaven (so that means it will be different)
There will be a New Earth (so that means it will be different)

Both will be a remoddling job (greek word used). Hense - there will be Heaven on Earth…

Heaven will be above in Heaven and Heaven will be on earth.

side note - there are three heavens Pauls was in the third one) My studies indicates that the third Heaven will be moved 3 or 4 times before God’s will is done (another thread).


#8

**I agree. **

The point is simply “Thy Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.” Whatever God’s Will is, let it be done. His Will is to bring heaven to Earth - Yea and Amen!!!

But His Will is so much more than just that!. He wills that all of us should love Him and join Him in Heaven. And we all should pray, “Let It be done”!!!

side note - there are three heavens Pauls was in the third one) My studies indicates that the third Heaven will be moved 3 or 4 times before God’s will is done (another thread).

I think you may be off on that. The three heavens was a “saying” of the Jews in Jesus’ time. I’ll have to look up where I read it in the past, but it’s not a doctrinal issue. Instead it’s a sort of slang term that the ancient Jews would have understood. (Think of “It’s raining cats and dogs”).

Edited with further information:
OK, I think I found what I was talking about.

The astronomy of the day would speak of three realms, first, the earth’s atmosphere, second, the region of the stars, third the place where God dwells. One Jewish tradition would speak of three heavens, another of seven. Paul clearly means he was taken to the highest.

Sorry, I think I misunderstood this the first time I read it.


#9

OK, sorry about being all over the place, but I knew that I had read something more concrete. This comes from “This Rock” magazine.

The term heaven is used in three senses in Scripture: to refer to the atmospheric realm where birds fly; to refer to the stellar realm where the sun, moon, and stars are; and to refer to the supernatural realm where God is.

When Paul refers to being in “the third heaven” (2 Cor. 12:4), he may simply be referring to that third, supernatural realm where God manifests his presence or he may be referring to a “level” within this supernatural realm. Christian piety has often speculated on the existence of sub-realms within the supernatural heaven (e.g., “seventh heaven”). While it is clear that there are different degrees of reward in heaven (1 Cor. 3:12–15), it is not clear that there will be regions in heaven that practice reward-based segregation of the population.


#10

I think it may mean that we are to strive to create heaven on earth through our dedication to Jesus through his Church, and our dedication to Jesus through our internal and external actions.

I think that believing that this world can be converted to a unified and reconciled body of believers is an inevitability of teleologic rationale.

:hypno:


#11

Yes, Its another teaching on CCC 846 “Outside the Church There is No Salvation”.


#12

wow! Great question!!
My opinion in a nut shell. We are suppose to bring heaven on earth. We are the embassadors of Heaven,we are suppose to do the same things as Jesus did. He is our example of what we should be doing. Most people I feel are afraid of that and hide but when they reach back home, heaven ,they will be judged according to their works of the law and if they have not done the works they must return again and again until they understand. Its all school here. lets all score high on this test!!!
The kingdom of heaven is within, we have the power through Jesus.
we are not here to save the world but to wake up the dead,in spirit by reminding them whom they truly are.

Wow, that was a large nut-shell! sorry! LOL!


#13

So say we are here to convert everyone, and bring them into communion with the Church, then with Heaven.

Anybody got any good ideas?

How are our missions doing?

How is South and Central America doing?


#14

I wouldn’t say they are going very well. The Evangelicals have done well with the OSAS theology. How are we doing in Africa? Far better, much more-so than how poorly we’re doing in South America.


#15

First of all let us ask, “Where is HEAVEN?” We are given the answer by Saint Luke, THE KINGDOM OF GOD is in the heart. In fact the KINGDOM OF GOD is being built as we speak. And it is by the BLOOD OF CHRIST that the KINGDOM is being built, and by BAPTISM. The seed which is planted in us is the SPIRIT OF GOD. Having the HOLY SPIRIT we are brought to unity in the BODY OF CHRIST, but we must also eat of JESUS, that we unite ourselves to the TRUE VINE.

Once we enter into this communion with THE LORD we are obligated to do GOD OUR FATHER’S WILL. This is to keep the first and greatest commandment to LOVE THE LORD OUR GOD with all our hearts, minds, souls, and might. Every covenant has both a promise and a commandment. If we do the WILL OF GOD we will enter into LIFE. JESUS makes it clear also that not all who come to HIM will enter into LIFE, but only those who do the WILL OF THE FATHER. Therefore we pray for this commandment that we will keep it, though we also pray, forgive us where we tresspass the law, by the same measure we forgive those that tresspass us.

If forgiven your sin, you will be expected to forgive others.

the NEW HEAVEN is being built, and therefore we are expected to keep the law, now, while on Earth, and continue to keep it in the KINGDOM to come, when the CHURCH has been built and JESUS returns in GLORY to judge the living and the dead.


#16

Catechism

846
How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.

end quote

That be said, we must understand the role of the CHURCH in the world which is to be a priest unto the nations. The CHURCH is to be a LIGHT OF TRUTH leading to CHRIST. Therefore all who understand this role of the CHURCH are supposed to come to CHRIST and be saved. But those who are ignorant of this, even invincibly ignorant are still able to be saved, particularly through BAPTISM. But since the CHURCH is to be a priest unto all nations, the LIGHT of CHRIST in the world, with CHRIST as our HEAD, we must aknowledge that we are to evangelize the Gospel, that all people are given the choice to choose CHRIST. We would desire, as GOD has WILLED that all souls be saved. Thus the Gospel must be preached unto the all the nations. And we the people of GOD who have inherited this role of Evangelization, of preaching the Gospel, of being a Priest unto the nations. We must acknowledge there will come a time when all people have come to some knowledge of CHRIST and HIS mission in the world to give HIS BODY as a propitiation for our sins.

Therefore it cannot be said “only Catholics are saved,” we could argue that only Catholics are Saints, as only in the fulness of the TRUTH can we overcome. By the liturgy of the WORD, and by the liturgy of the EUCHARIST, and by not loving our lives unto death (Revelation 12:11). And to all who do overcome they shall be made pillars in the temple of our GOD, and shall go no more out. You’ll of course note the similarity here to the priest and the lay people, as the lay people go in and out and find pasture, as it States in the Gospel of John. Here in Revelation Saint John the Apostle states the role of the Saints who overcome and made pillars in the TEMPLE of GOD.

Furthermore it states that JESUS will judge the living and the dead. But if you do not eat of CHRIST’s BODY AND BLOOD you do not have LIFE in you. Therefore those who have not eaten of CHRIST’s BLOOD are also told they will be judged. But there is also the promise that those who do eat of CHRIST’s BODY AND BLOOD they will be “raised up” on the last day. The better part, and the greater responsibility are those to whom this gift of LIFE, and this understanding in TRUE doctrine is given.

The last verse in Jonah is pretty clear on how GOD views the ignorant:

Jonah 4:11 *And shall not I spare Ninive, that great city, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand persons that know not how to distinguish between their right hand and their left, and many beasts?


#17

:thumbsup:


#18

I wouldn’t say they are going very well. The Evangelicals have done well with the OSAS theology. How are we doing in Africa? Far better, much more-so than how poorly we’re doing in South America.

Yeah, well we should play better defense, and look to update the playbook in order to get the rest of the planet into field goal range.


#19

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