Tadpole is what came to mind.
Baptism does in fact make one a member of the Mystical Body of Christ the Church and as Vatican II says, “The Church subsists in the Catholic Church”. Externally they choose to be Catholic by the way they live out their Christianity or they choose to be some other form of Christian.
If a person in my view decides not to live out the Catholic Faith any longer in their actions and they choose to instead, live as a Methodist. They are no longer Catholic but Methodist. They are not a Catholic-Baptist any more than a Methodist who becomes Catholic is a Methodist-Catholic. They have taken off the external wrapper of “Catholic” and put on Methodist. At the core they are still Christian by virtue of their Baptism.
Yet, in the (hopeful) event that these individuals attain Salvation and Heaven - then it will be because (through the Mercy of God) they have received a Grace. Inasmuch as there are no Methodists
or Baptists (as such) in Heaven - they will be Catholics: Members of the Mystical Body of Christ, which IS the Catholic Church. Is that not so?
Yes they are still imperfectly attached to the Catholic Church,
I agree! That is what I was looking for.
but are not in my view Catholic
I disagree within limits. If they DO attain Heaven - they will be Catholic prior to their deaths. A good question may be: “When does this happen?”
and the laws of the Catholic Church do not apply to them.
I respectfully disagree with this and provide the following from Dr. Ludwig Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma:
It is defined Catholic Dogma that:
[font=Times New Roman]***"Membership of the Church is necessary for all men for salvation."*** (de fide)
Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma was "first published in German in 1952, under the title Grundriss der Kotholiken Dogmatik, by Verlag Herder, Freibury…(and) “first published in English in May, 1955, by The Mercier Press, Limited.” My copy in English was published by Tan Books and Publishers, Inc. 1974, page 312
Dr. Ott, however, prefaced this Dogma on p. 311 of the cited work with:
§ 19. Membership of the: Church p. 311
Among the members of the Church are not to be counted :
a) The unbaptised. Cf. I Cor. 5, 12: “What have I to do to judge them that are without (qui foris sunt)?” The so-called Baptism by blood and Baptism of desire, it is true, replace Sacramental Baptism in so far as the communication of grace is concerned, but do not effect incorporation into the Church, as they do not bestow the sacramental character by which a person becomes attached formally to the Church.
In spite of the opinion of Suarez, catechumens are not to be counted among the members of the Church. Even if they have the desire (votum) to belong to the Church, they are not really (actu) accepted into it. The Church claims no jurisdiction over them (D 895). The Fathers draw a sharp line of separation between catechumens and" the faithful." Cf. Tertullian, De praescr. 41 ; St. Augustine, In Ioan. tr. 44, 2.
b) Open apostates and heretics. Public heretics, even those who err in good faith (material heretics), do not belong to the body of the Church, that is to the legal commonwealth of the Church. However. this does not prevent them from belonging spiritually to the Church by their desire to belong to the Church (votum Ecclesiae) and through this, achieving justification and salvation.
According to the more probable opinion, represented by St. Bellarmine and most modern theologians (Palmieri, Billot, Straub, Pesch) against Suarez, Franzelin, and others, secret apostates and heretics remain members of the Church, because the loss of membership of the Church, just as much as its acquisition, on account of the visibility of the Church, can only result from external legally ascertainable facts.