Once saved always saved


#1

I once said, “Who made Uncle Sam, God”. I believe it was the Catholic layperson, who changed the vision of the church into the American dream and now find themselves in the American nightmare. That nightmare will continually get worse, until the Catholic layperson realize what they have done. We can not worship both God and Uncle Sam at the same time. You will hate one and love the other. We must realize that this has been tried before.

This has shattered whole societies before and it will again. It has never been successful, but people try anyway. Foolish, yes; but boy, oh boy, will it ignite the fires of hate, for it say that there is no such thing as the American dream. The American dream is all you here about on radio talk shows and TV. This is pride and a prideful nation tell us to go away.

You can not talk about grace, you must talk about “the government, corporations and money“, that is what runs the world and the nation, that is the American dream. It is foolishness to talk about grace, but it is just that, grace, which is the answer. We took away the religious orders and chapels in our hospital and institutions of education, which rain grace down upon us and replaced with what, “government, corporations and money“, the American dream.

Our media is always talking about the American dream, and not about the vision of the church. What they talk about is how we can get ahead and not how we can get to heaven. It is their effort to be God and make heaven on earth.

This comes from the statement “Once saved always saved”. Church has become the manifestation of heaven instead of its means, for heaven is the evidence of our salvation. Therefore, if we are saved then we are already in heaven. So it is that nations strive to be heavenly kingdoms. Problem here is that no worldly knowledge can create a heavenly kingdom. Death separated the two kingdoms. This is why Adam and Eve died the moment they ate the forbidden fruit and the meaning of death. Death separated heaven and earth. The remedy is not a earthly knowledge, but a heavenly one.

Let us prayer that this trend amongst the Catholic laypersons ends before it is to late.

The church has been successful for two thousand years, I do not think it needs Americans tell it how to conduct its business, especially in the context of the American dream. Let’s return to our religious orders, prayer and the sacraments. Let’s rain grace down on this nation once again.

Corporations, money, and governments have never worked, let’s try something which has our Catholic church.


#2

We can not worship both God and Uncle Sam at the same time. You will hate one and love the other.

I have read, and also agree, that patriotism is a religion in and of itself. God created the earth and all therein; man drew the lines that are called countries.
I consider myself fortunate to have been born in America, but not proud because, frankly, I had nothing to do with it. Pride is what I take in accomplisment of a reached goal, i.e., learning how to do algebra, as an example.
In many people OSAS seems to result in moving on to some other interest of more paramount importance (to them) because they believe they’ve already reached the pinnacle of their stretch for God. In other words, ‘since I’m already saved, now I’ll concentrate on (fill in the blank)’.
I say this because of listening to my OSAS relatives and the things of God now take second place to all other considerations. They believe that their journey to God has ended - they’re already there!


#3

Well, I think the fact that the US was founded on Enlightenment principles with a capitalist economic system and a public school system that preached to us all our lives that the founding fathers and capitalism had the blessing of God himself is more to blame for many American Catholics thinking like Enlightenment Protestants than Catholics than accepting the OSAS theological construct.

We think of ourselves as Americans first and Catholics second because our English ancestors thought of themselves as Englishmen for whom king and country came before the church. So, it isn’t surprising that American Catholics, steeped in such a culture and mind set, should think that way too.


#4

We think of ourselves as Americans first and Catholics second because our English ancestors thought of themselves as Englishmen for whom king and country came before the church.

Excellent point!


#5

That’s why I’m an Ultramontane–Church above state!:smiley:


#6

Beaver,

Great point. The princes and nobilty overthrew the Church and stole the property and role of the Church in our in thier lives as part of the re-(DE)formation. The Protestants in this country continue to let our Government lead them to some great extant. It is too bad that many Catholics think of themselves as Americans first and Catholics second.

We are Catholics first and Americans second. Anything else is not Christian. Christ founded our Church - not our country. The government should govern but only under the moral standards of the Church. The re(de)formation was pushed on and led by the nobility of Europe who wanted more power and wealth by taking the role of the Catholic Church and stealing its property. Many Protestants choose to keep their head in a hole by refusing to talk about the role of the nobles in leading them astray. Now its still affecting Catholic in the US. The re(de)formation is more about money and power then theology when you study it.

A government is only valid as long as it obeys Gods law. Our Protestant/secular government is now ignoring morality and Gods law. Many Catholics are being sucked into this Protestant deformed illogic.


#7

What it really comes down to is that Adam gave up his supernatural life for his natural one and Christ gave up His natural life for His supernatural one. Now we must choose our own course.


#8

This is one of the few truly insightful threads I’ve seen on this forum.

Until fairly recently, I was oblivious to the pernicious effects of growing up in a predominantly protestant nation, and trying to live true to the Catholic Church. As a fish doesn’t know he’s wet, I didn’t know I was breathing the air of the so-called reformation until it was pointed out to me in the writing of Hilaire Belloc.


#9

[quote=Malachi4U]Beaver,

Great point. The princes and nobilty overthrew the Church and stole the property and role of the Church in our in thier lives as part of the re-(DE)formation. The Protestants in this country continue to let our Government lead them to some great extant. It is too bad that many Catholics think of themselves as Americans first and Catholics second.

We are Catholics first and Americans second. Anything else is not Christian. Christ founded our Church - not our country. The government should govern but only under the moral standards of the Church. The re(de)formation was pushed on and led by the nobility of Europe who wanted more power and wealth by taking the role of the Catholic Church and stealing its property. Many Protestants choose to keep their head in a hole by refusing to talk about the role of the nobles in leading them astray. Now its still affecting Catholic in the US. The re(de)formation is more about money and power then theology when you study it.

A government is only valid as long as it obeys Gods law. Our Protestant/secular government is now ignoring morality and Gods law. Many Catholics are being sucked into this Protestant deformed illogic.
[/quote]

You are full of it, and ignorant to boot. This is not a protestant secular government, it is secular, period. And, you are told in Rom 13 to submit to the government, as no government, or ruler is in place except by the power of God. Catholics do not understand God. You see the world falling apart, and fail to realize that God is in control; He is not caught off-guard. Quit whining, and watch as God brings history to its final conclusion. Maybe you will see the final act in your lifetime, maybe not. God is control; you are not, and no amount of protesting against the powers that be by you will change anything, unless it is God’s will that it change.

How you can link any of this to OSAS is a mystery. You do not understand anything except for your aberrant theology.

The Gospel of Christ is not a social Gospel.


#10

originally posted by conrad01
Catholics do not understand God.

May we remind you that you are on a Catholic Forum?
I suggest, after reading your other anti-Catholic posts, that you pick up a history book, starting with the Encyclopedia, to read the history of The Church. It extends far back beyond the re(de)formation.
BTW, denigrating the posters here

You are full of it, and ignorant to boot.

is not only poor forum etiquette but also certainly the worst way to get your points across.


#11

[quote=catsrus]May we remind you that you are on a Catholic Forum?
I suggest, after reading your other anti-Catholic posts, that you pick up a history book, starting with the Encyclopedia, to read the history of The Church. It extends far back beyond the re(de)formation.
BTW, denigrating the posters here is not only poor forum etiquette but also certainly the worst way to get your points across.
[/quote]

Applause.


#12

[quote=conrad01]You are full of it, and ignorant to boot.
[/quote]

I see suspension in your future.


#13

Excellent point! The great defect of the Constitution of the United States is that it does not acknowledge this reality, and this defect is why we have the abomination of legal abortion.


#14

I would like to thank those who respond thoughtfully.

It reminds me of Christ words “Good and faithful Servant”. I guess for those already saved these kind and gentle words of our Lord have already been uttered. Maybe that is why they no longer serve others because they have already been saved. Then again we see that a servant does the works of His master house.

Could this be why Protestants have no works.


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