One Nation Under Gods


#1

Anyone read the book One Nation Under Gods by Richard Abanes?

I have read the book, and it’s a great and accurate guide from the founding of the Mormon church to today’s LDS church.

If anyone wants to know more about the LDS, read this book!


#2

[quote=Ric]Anyone read the book One Nation Under Gods by Richard Abanes?

I have read the book, and it’s a great and accurate guide from the founding of the Mormon church to today’s LDS church.

If anyone wants to know more about the LDS, read this book!
[/quote]

I have it and cannot commend it. It invariably puts the worst possible ‘spin’ on anything related to Joseph Smith or the Mormon Church. FAIR-LDS has done a huge number of short articles on the book. Richard Abanes seems to have badly misused his sources, deliberately disected them to favor his preconceived biases against the Mormons, etcetera. Please note that I am a former Mormon and don’t believe the LDS Church is particularly unbiased or honest about it’s own history. But this does not justify the same tactics being employed to discredit them.


#3

[quote=flameburns623]I have it and cannot commend it. It invariably puts the worst possible ‘spin’ on anything related to Joseph Smith or the Mormon Church. FAIR-LDS has done a huge number of short articles on the book. Richard Abanes seems to have badly misused his sources, deliberately disected them to favor his preconceived biases against the Mormons, etcetera. Please note that I am a former Mormon and don’t believe the LDS Church is particularly unbiased or honest about it’s own history. But this does not justify the same tactics being employed to discredit them.
[/quote]

Considering that you are a former Mormon, or LDS, what would you recommend reading?


#4

[quote=flameburns623]I have it and cannot commend it. It invariably puts the worst possible ‘spin’ on anything related to Joseph Smith or the Mormon Church. FAIR-LDS has done a huge number of short articles on the book. Richard Abanes seems to have badly misused his sources, deliberately disected them to favor his preconceived biases against the Mormons, etcetera. Please note that I am a former Mormon and don’t believe the LDS Church is particularly unbiased or honest about it’s own history. But this does not justify the same tactics being employed to discredit them.
[/quote]

Well the book is well footnoted and all of the info in the book is factual! I’ve been to the “FAIR-LDS” site (and many others too), and one thing I can honestly say is that FAIR-LDS is not fair with the truth (pun intended).


#5

[quote=otm]Considering that you are a former Mormon, or LDS, what would you recommend reading?
[/quote]

The Tanners have done several books in which they basically reproduce materials from LDS original sources. One can fault the Tanners for selectively choosing the most damning material without including mitigating evidence, or for putting the worst possible interpretation on their evidence. But one has a better chance of forming opinions on one’s own. Fawn Brodie is widely touted thugh I thought she let her own biases show at times.

There are some secular histories and biographies available, but most of the material extant is either put out by ‘true believers’ or by virulent opponents. Best advice–if you read something written from one perspective, counterbalance it by reading something of equal merit on the same subject from the other point of view. And if you already bring a bias to the topic–read TWO books from the opposing side for every one which reinforces your bias. Which is time-consuming and laborious but the best way to achieve balance.


#6

[quote=Ric]Well the book is well footnoted and all of the info in the book is factual! I’ve been to the “FAIR-LDS” site (and many others too), and one thing I can honestly say is that FAIR-LDS is not fair with the truth (pun intended).
[/quote]

FAIR-LDS is reasonably good. They don’t have much to work with IMHO. Check Abanes’ footnotes against his sources, as the FAIR-LDS articles do–I was appalled at some of the distortions. I have heard Abanes on the radio discussing this book and honestly I like him and want to believe his work–but I have to go with the evidence at hand. My best intepretation is that Abanes himself did not check his own sources but relied upon secondary material in many cases.


#7

[quote=flameburns623]FAIR-LDS is reasonably good. They don’t have much to work with IMHO. Check Abanes’ footnotes against his sources, as the FAIR-LDS articles do–I was appalled at some of the distortions. I have heard Abanes on the radio discussing this book and honestly I like him and want to believe his work–but I have to go with the evidence at hand. My best intepretation is that Abanes himself did not check his own sources but relied upon secondary material in many cases.
[/quote]

Well, I’m not trying to be argumentative over this, but I have had the book over two years now and I have checked many of the footnotes. :thumbsup:


#8

Anyone else? :confused:

[quote=Ric]Anyone read the book One Nation Under Gods by Richard Abanes?

I have read the book, and it’s a great and accurate guide from the founding of the Mormon church to today’s LDS church.

If anyone wants to know more about the LDS, read this book!
[/quote]


#9

I own, and have read, both editions of ONUG. IMO, Abanes relies way too much on second and third hand sources, many of which come from early anti-Mormons who were excommunicated from the CoJCoLDS. The negative tone of the book cannot be missed, and the style of the book reminds me of many anti-Catholic works.

BTW, Abanes is a former Catholic (now an Evangelical) who has personally told me that he is thinking of writing a book on Catholicism. I seriously doubt he will be any fairer with Catholics than he has been with Mormons.

Abanes is knee deep in what is known as the “counter-cultist” movement, founded by Walter Martin; a movement that has never been known for objectivity.

Grace and peace,

Aug


#10

Hi Aug,

Sorry you feel that way about the book. :frowning:

[quote=AugustineH354]I own, and have read, both editions of ONUG. IMO, Abanes relies way too much on second and third hand sources, many of which come from early anti-Mormons who were excommunicated from the CoJCoLDS. The negative tone of the book cannot be missed, and the style of the book reminds me of many anti-Catholic works.

BTW, Abanes is a former Catholic (now an Evangelical) who has personally told me that he is thinking of writing a book on Catholicism. I seriously doubt he will be any fairer with Catholics than he has been with Mormons.

Abanes is knee deep in what is known as the “counter-cultist” movement, founded by Walter Martin; a movement that has never been known for objectivity.

Grace and peace,

Aug
[/quote]


#11

Hey Ric,

You wrote:

Sorry you feel that way about the book.>>

I would like to think that my assessment of *ONUG *is based more on in depth study, rather than mere feelings. I have been studying Mormonism since 1987, and in this process have collected over 1,700 books on Mormonism (including 150+ anti-Mormon books), plus all the BYU Studies, Dialogue, and Sunstone journals.

Now, I have related the above to try and establish that I am not some newbie when it comes to Mormon studies. With this said, I must maintain that *ONUG *is not a scholarly work, but rather, a polemical anti-Mormon work. The style reminds me of John Cornwell’s Hitler’s Pope, which on the surface appears to be well researched, but when one digs deeper, it becomes crystal clear that the sources used were actual very selective in their scope, one-sided, and above all, negative.

Grace and peace,

David


#12

Well you are entitled to your opinion! :wink:

[quote=AugustineH354]Hey Ric,

You wrote:

Sorry you feel that way about the book.>>

I would like to think that my assessment of *ONUG *is based more on in depth study, rather than mere feelings. I have been studying Mormonism since 1987, and in this process have collected over 1,700 books on Mormonism (including 150+ anti-Mormon books), plus all the BYU Studies, Dialogue, and Sunstone journals.

Now, I have related the above to try and establish that I am not some newbie when it comes to Mormon studies. With this said, I must maintain that *ONUG *is not a scholarly work, but rather, a polemical anti-Mormon work. The style reminds me of John Cornwell’s Hitler’s Pope, which on the surface appears to be well researched, but when one digs deeper, it becomes crystal clear that the sources used were actual very selective in their scope, one-sided, and above all, negative.

Grace and peace,

David
[/quote]


#13

I have not read the book,

but history and truth is very interesting

I can buy a book that calls President Bush a saint or I can buy one that tells me that he is the anti christ. Both books footnote there sources extremely well.

I am a new Catholic but previously I was very anti catholic, I read numerous articles about how bad the Church was, all of it well documented!

On my own I found the Church because I was searching for the deeper Truth.

I believe if this book is strongly anti mormon you should not put all your coins into it because the author will footnote as needed to make his points.

Now that being said I found the book Out of Mormonism very interesting because although she left the Mormon Church she did love it.

I find our friends Cannon sorry if I mispelled your name comments of the misconceptions very interesting because all I have ever heard about the Mormons were against Mormons, but trully they are very nice people, live a very Christian life, yet coming from the protestant world view we just punished them for it, and told them they are not Christian at all.

I dated a Mormon girl for awhile, went to a Mormon Church a few times, very nice people that believe in what they are doing and lead a very “Christian life” And although I disagree with there doctrine I only know it from the anti mormom view point.

It was not until I studied the Catholic Church from the Catholic apolegetic sites including this one that I realized the truth.

I guess to be trully fair and ballence you need to read both arguments and decide on your own, which most of us just go with the crowd.


#14

[quote=flameburns623]The Tanners have done several books in which they basically reproduce materials from LDS original sources. One can fault the Tanners for selectively choosing the most damning material without including mitigating evidence, or for putting the worst possible interpretation on their evidence. But one has a better chance of forming opinions on one’s own. Fawn Brodie is widely touted thugh I thought she let her own biases show at times.

There are some secular histories and biographies available, but most of the material extant is either put out by ‘true believers’ or by virulent opponents. Best advice–if you read something written from one perspective, counterbalance it by reading something of equal merit on the same subject from the other point of view. And if you already bring a bias to the topic–read TWO books from the opposing side for every one which reinforces your bias. Which is time-consuming and laborious but the best way to achieve balance.
[/quote]

I have read one of the Tanners books, and found them a bit polemical and a bit over the top at times.


#15

[quote=otm]I have read one of the Tanners books, and found them a bit polemical and a bit over the top at times.
[/quote]

The Tanners’ own stuff IS polemical. You’re not going to get away from polemics very easily in any sort of religious discussion. Peope are rarely truly unbiased or neutral on these sorts of subjects. What the Tanners have done which is helpful and noteworthy is reproduced from original sources a lot of material otherwise not available to average people.


#16

I suppose I ought to read Dan Vogel’s book. His perspective and research certainly matches mine. I have no difficulty finding books with a different bias than mine. :wink: Finding Perry Armstrong’s (The Sauks and the Black Hawk war) book was purely accident.

Although you don’t know specifically all that I have read, what would you recommend to me?

It was only by extreme urging from an on-line friend that I began delving into Indian-Mormon conflicts in the West.

Just addressing the issues has been very anxiety-producing for me.


#17

For online sources:

utlm.org/navonlinebooks.htm

xmission.com/~country/reason/reason.htm

antimormon.8m.com/

xmission.com/~research/central/resth10.htm

signaturebooks.com/excerpts/insider’s.html

sidneyrigdon.com/Classics1.htm

thedigitalvoice.com/enigma/wrw/1977DavA.htm

signaturebooks.com/excerpts/insacred.htm

irr.org/mit/

lavazone2.com/dbroadhu/


#18

[quote=Jerusha]For online sources:

utlm.org/navonlinebooks.htm

xmission.com/~country/reason/reason.htm

antimormon.8m.com/

xmission.com/~research/central/resth10.htm

signaturebooks.com/excerpts/insider’s.html

sidneyrigdon.com/Classics1.htm

thedigitalvoice.com/enigma/wrw/1977DavA.htm

signaturebooks.com/excerpts/insacred.htm

irr.org/mit/

lavazone2.com/dbroadhu/
[/quote]

Are you getting all of your information from these anti-Mormon sites? If so why are you doing that? I purposely avoid reading anti-Catholic sites, because if I read them I would hate Catholics and all they have “supposedly” done throughout history. I just do not want to expose myself to such hatred and lies.
I am sorry, Jerusha, you are such a lovely person( I know from your answers to me in other posts) and for you to read these sites is to me as if you were reading pornography. I feel the same about anti-Catholic sites, I refuse to read them. I try only to think positive about anyone’s beliefs and will not listen to people who hate them. It is very disturbing to know there are people in the world filled with such hatred that they write books spouting their hatred and pass it off as the truth. I can only think it pains our Heavenly Father immensely to see such things. We are way better than to read such trash and form our opinions of each other that way.
:frowning: BJ


#19

[quote=flameburns623]The Tanners’ own stuff IS polemical. You’re not going to get away from polemics very easily in any sort of religious discussion. Peope are rarely truly unbiased or neutral on these sorts of subjects. What the Tanners have done which is helpful and noteworthy is reproduced from original sources a lot of material otherwise not available to average people.
[/quote]

Hey flame,
Any specific books of the Tanners you would recommend?


#20

[quote=AugustineH354]I have been studying Mormonism since 1987, and in this process have collected over 1,700 books on Mormonism (including 150+ anti-Mormon books), plus all the BYU Studies, Dialogue, and Sunstone journals.
[/quote]

Any books you would recommend?


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.