Opinions: State of the Church

Hey all,

I’m curious for your opinions on the current state of the Church. Do you think they are doing the mission that the apostles preached? Do you think anything should be changed or do you think they are doing well? If there are any changes what would they be? etc…

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Who is “they?” The Church is we, not they. Are we doing the mission Christ and His Apostles charged us with? No, as a group, we are not doing a great job.


I don’t know since it is different in many places, but some people seem to be going with the world and that’s not a good thing.

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Honestly? Not good of late.

It bothers me whenever I hear someone say they weren’t properly catechized for one. Do these people not know of all of the material out now that they can still learn about their faith? It’s a cop out hearing that. My view is if you weren’t properly catechized in the faith, own it, & make time to learn - that’s assuming people aren’t stuck in a blame game mentality & their faith matters enough for them to go out & learn.

I know people leave the Church for various reasons, but propbably the most obvious reasons to me are the sexual abuse scandals. It has occurred to me that if people fear that their children could possibly be abused, they won’t bring them. They’ll keep them away. I have noted that this most obvious reason seems to be avoided in discussions.

Like it or not, these scandals have made their mark, damaging the image of the One, Holy, Catholic, & Apostolic Church. As the One true Church, it has fallen in a big way, & because of people who thought they were above the law, the offenders created pain of crisis levels in the Church; have damaged & possibly killed souls/faith; & have created a major stumbling block for outsiders & paved the way for blasphemy of God.

Get to the root of the problem & stop trying to heal a spiritual family crisis with bureaucracy. Expel those who did this, & bring them to justice. Do the right thing. Be merciful to the repentant, & for the unrepentant, send their behinds to jail.

Of course, the gates of hell will never prevail against the Church, but it is really suffering at this time. In the words which were inspired by the Deacon in my Parish: Satan has been having a field day in the Church since the conclusion of Vatican II.

Edit: I am not a sedevacantist who believes that Vatican II is the source of all evil in the world. I do not believe that Vatican II itself that caused many problems in the Church today, but rather the false and erroneous interpretation of it.

I take it he’s a sedevacantist Deacon who blames Vatican II for every evil in the world?

No. They are my words inspired by the Deacon.

Are you, then, a sedevacantist who blames Vatican II for every evil in the world?

No, I am not.

Then you might want to rethink the wording on your post because it comes across as complaining about Vatican II being the source of all evil in the world. That’s a position a sed would take.

I just posted on another thread but it is such a fascinating idea - the ‘Eastern Orthodoxization’ of the RCC. I don’t mean a take over or union. I am speaking as a model. Return to the early Church in the West, by the West, for the West. By which I mean decentralization of the Vatican. Local bishops increasingly exercise local authority on governing the clergy, hierarchy, Church teaching, operate together based on the early Church, RCC tradition and Scripture, Cathechism,synod model, equals. Move away from the Vatican Curia, hierarchy; we can’t fix it outright, let time and God do it. Just for thought at this point, but it could be a way out of what is almost certain destruction of the Church of Christ at the hands of the forces that be. Will of God. I am going to watch this closely to see if this happens. And for those of you worried about straying off course - we can’t get any further in the weeds than James Martin and co., where we are now, speaking of the state of the Church. Think third vision of Fatima, plus this is what the current Pope said he wanted. Holy Spirit. It won’t be a painful process, but a healing one. That is the part no one sees yet. Also, if this is impossible, that says a fair amount about the State of the Church. Think Lot’s wife…:hugs::sunglasses::wink:

Much good in Eastern Christianity.
I would quibble with your worry about the destruction of the Church. Can’t happen.
I believe the Church is already going through a revival starting with JP2 and carried on by lay theologians and the newer priests. That fresh leaven needs to revive the Church.

We are seeing the last gasp of clericalism. It’s no different than career politicians who stay in positions of power to amass more power, and also abuse it.
We have career clerics entrenched in places of power serving at their own pleasure. And all the ingredients add up to a perfect place for the deviant sexuality we are seeing.

Going back to married priests would solve some of these issues.
And also, put competent and strong women into positions of leadership in seminaries (no, not as ordained…).

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I know I am thinking kind of a wild idea, but if the Western Church somehow stumbled its way back to more of a 3rd-5th century model, local jurisdictions, real monastic communities, sacraments, synods, local bishops with authority, kind of doing the Reformation the right way if you will, I think we could pull back many many Protestants, pull in and/or keep many RCCers, atheists, etc., get back on even footing with the EO, Pope as bishop among many. Put the Church back together, not perfect, but a lot better than now. And yes probably still quite a bit smaller. Is there even an appetite for this in the modern West.

Definitely agree that married priests are overdue and that orthodoxy will make a come back in the coming generations. I know this is generational but sometimes I think conservatives are over enthusiastic about the future - it won’t be clear sailing, more like the Anglicans, constant cultural and political warfare. If we have learned anything from Vatican II and Pope Francis, it is that. Liberal Catholics won’t just transform themselves. You have to have a true, functioning orthodox Western Church that is free of endless innovation, modernization, secular power grabs. And that Church has to defend and enforce itself; you cannot do this under the current structure. All we talk about is the Church, never Christ - that should tell you something is up that is not good; it is His Church, not ours. A power shift alone is not going to cut it. It has to be a reorientation, a heading back home, away from ourselves.

So basically a complete repudiation of the Church handed down from the apostles :roll_eyes:

Actually an affirmation of just that. I know it sounds innovative but it is really not. I think I should go on the bill with James Martin at the Families Meeting…:blush:

Our Church has indeed entered a new phase: with the advent of this first Jesuit pope, it is openly ruled by an individual rather than by the authority of Scripture alone or even its own dictates of tradition plus Scripture.

The Church has NEVER operated by Scripture alone. Sola Scriptura is a Protestant heresy.

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We are beyond the dictates of tradition plus Scripture now. Technically I think this includes the authority of the Pope.

The authority of the Pope comes from Christ himself and cannot be repealed. Man has no authority over what Christ has established.

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What is it with the heretical Modernist drivel that past couple of days? :roll_eyes:

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