Orans posture prohibited during Lord's Prayer


#85

From the article:

The Church has not forbidden the congregation the use of the Orans posture during the Our Father but has many times cautioned against inserting unauthorized gestures into the Mass.

I guess this is the best answer. Make no effort to insert it. Don’t forbid it. This would seem to mirror what the Church has done from the Holy See.


#86

It alerts us to “the slippery slope.” If we start saying the Orans posture is only for priests, we will end up ordaining women.


#88

If there are Catholics who don’t attend Sunday Mass because people hold hands, then they’re probably committing mortal sin as we’re the only little parish in this rural community. The church only holds about 150 people and that’s with every seat taken. That only tends to happen at the Christmas Vigil Mass and Easter Vigil.

However, because we’re small, we know each other and holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer, has never been an issue.

Heaven forbid we celebrate Mass with a community of friends instead of a group of strangers.

Jim


#89

So, if they choose not to attend Mass then yes, that is a mortal sin. Completely agree. We also need to be respectful to those, who may have no other choice but to attend a small little parish and maybe do not want to participate in hand holding or raising hands. Many Catholics that can will drive quite a ways to a different parish if there is something happening that makes a person feel uncomfortable at Mass or they feel is an abuse. How hard it is on Sundays for those who can not make a long drive and yet are uncomfortable at Mass.

I am not sure if you mean the hand holding during the Our Father only happens at these times or it is full with every seat taken at these times.??

I am not necessarily saying raising ones hands or holding hands is wrong or an abuse, but just in response to this sentence here, I would rather celebrate Mass correctly and without abuses and with strangers than with friends who abuse the Mass liturgically. After a while, those strangers can become friends and family.

God bless


#90

If you have such a problem that holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer with the person reaching out to you, that you decided to not attend Mass, then you’ve got a problem in your spiritual formation.

Ask yourself, would Jesus refuse ?

Jim


#91

I don’t think you read my last post, I said it was a mortal sin to not attend Mass. It is not a mortal sin to go to a parish where you are not coerced to hold hands.

God bless.


#92

What’s in the heart is the issue.

If a kind person reaches out to hold your hand in prayer, how can you refuse and not insult that person ?

I just don’t get it

Jim


#93

Or likewise, you have the courage of your conviction to remain with your hands folded and take ownership of your conscience.
Missing Mass over this issue is not an option in any case.

And wrangling over this issue distracts and divides Christians from much bigger issues.


#94

If your conscience prohibits you from holding hands with a person who reached out to you, you’re conscience needs an overhaul.

Jim


#95

Not necessarily, in this context.
On the street when someone is hungry, yea.

I don’t like joining hands at Mass, but I do it when offered.
But I respect others who don’t wish to. We should assume the best of one another.
It’s not a problem either way.


#96

Obedience to God is the issue.

At the moment I am praying the Our Father my focus is on God, not on the person next to me. We have very few people raising and holding hands anymore but if that happened I would politely smile and refuse, as I have seen other polite people do, but usually my eyes are closed and my head bowed as I am in prayer to God.

The couple of times I attended the Mass where everyone ended up in the middle, I didn’t have a choice, the crowd moved at me, which is why I do not attend that Mass.

The people reaching out are not necessarily always kind. I once observed a middle aged man in the pew in front of me hold an elderly woman’s hand so tight she was in pain and when she pulled her hand a way he chuckled at her.

In a different situation I would agree, but at Mass, my focus is to be on God and the sacrifice happening, not on the people around me. The same should be for the people next to me, they should be focusing on God, not me.

God bless


#97

What would be disobedience to God, by holding hands with the person next to you during the Lord’s Prayer ?

I recall Jesus telling us to love our neighbor as ourselves

Jim


#98

I did not say disobedience to God, but not focusing on God. ??


#99

How are you not focusing on God when praying in union with those around you ?

Sounds like you prefer individual prayer over community prayer

Well that’s not what the Mass is about

The priest doesn’t celebrate Mass just for you, but for the community gathered in front of him.

Jim


#100

So, are you saying I can’t be praying in a community or in union with those around me without holding someone’s hand? We pray as a family all the time and do not hold hands. I grew up praying with my parents and my father leading the prayer and we did not hold hands. I work in a Catholic community and someone leads us in a prayer before meetings and no one holds hands. Does that mean we are not praying in a community or in union with each other??

Were Catholics throughout the ages who did not hold hands, not pray in community when at Mass?

Absolutely true.


#101

So, are you saying I can’t be praying in a community without holding someone’s hand?

I didn’t say that

You said you’d refused to hold hands while praying the Lord’s Prayer, out of obedience to God.

This doesn’t make sense

But do what you will.

Jim


#102

Well, a study was done showing that between hand shaking, high five or fist bump, fist bump is significantly less likely to spread infectious diseases. When I work with kids, it’s always fist bump.


#103

I did not say that. You are misquoting me. I said, I do not hold hands because I am focusing on God and plus it is rarely seen anymore, least ways around the parishes I attend.

I mentioned obedience to this comment only. There are many things we have in our hearts but obedience to God is most important.


#104

Why is that person insulted if someone else simply smiles and bows in return?


#105

You don’t have to hold hands, and you don’t have to shake hands.
The only person touching my palm during Mass is a capital p Person. If someone wants to get judgmental about it, or take offense where none is intended, that’s on them. I’m not slapping their hand away or scowling at them. Who cares?


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